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Many are called but few are chosen

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by npetreley, Mar 22, 2006.

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  1. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    I see lots of free willers quoting this verse in support of their views. I think there are so many things wrong with quoting this verse in support of free will, it's hard to know where to start. First of all, "many"? Why not "all"? That's what the free willers state elsewhere - that all are called. "Chosen"? Why not choose? Shouldn't a free will version of this verse be "All are called but few choose?"

    But, IMO, the biggest mistake the free willers are making is that they are taking the verse entirely out of context. The verse appears twice in Matthew. Each time it is the conclusion of a parable. The first parable is the workers in the vineyard in Matthew 20. The conclusion of the matter is:

    I see this parable as a preparation for the fact that God was about to announce His call to the Gentiles, and that in the end, some Gentiles would be more greatly honored than Jews.

    In the flesh, Jews would be outraged that salvation had not only come to the Gentiles, but even more outraged that the Gentiles might enjoy rewards for which they felt they had worked harder and longer. The Jews were chosen first, and they were dealt with severely and it was upon them that the burden was placed to maintain His word.

    But Jesus is saying that there's nothing unfair about giving the same reward to the Gentiles, even if they didn't have to go through everything the Jews did. In fact, some Gentiles, who came into the picture late, would be considered more honored in the Kingdom, and so "the last would be first" in those cases.

    So the final conclusion "many are called but few chosen" seems most likely to mean that in the end, God will have called both Jews and Gentiles, but of those two groups, few are among the chosen.

    ------------------

    The second is the parable of the wedding feast in Matthew 22. The conclusion of the matter is:

    This looks to me to be addressing the same issue as the first, only from a slightly different perspective. This time it isn't about who came first or whether it is unfair to give equal rewards to the Gentiles who came afterward. It is a more basic description of what was about to happen. The Jews, having not only rejected God but killed His servants, the prophets, would be set aside (in general - there were a remnant who remained elect, as seen elsewhere in the NT). God would then bring in the Gentiles.

    But there is a catch. Just because God was bringing in the Gentiles would not mean that salvation had come to ALL Gentiles (the same way not all Jews would be rejected, either).

    Once again, the final conclusion "many are called but few are chosen" seems to point to the fact that the Jews were called, the Gentiles were called, but of the two groups, few are among the chosen.
     
    #1 npetreley, Mar 22, 2006
  2. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    If God's will is that none should perish, and many do perish, evidently, it wasn't because of "God's will".

    That's the truth, No matter how much you try to "Twist" the truth out of it. :eek: :D
     
    #2 Me4Him, Mar 22, 2006
  3. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    In Romans 1 we read that no man has an excuse, and the reason given is that all men can see at least some of the truth about the reality of God and His character in creation. Romans 1 goes on to tell us about those who suppress this truth and what happens to their characters.

    These people are not called. None of them want the truth.

    But all of those who want the truth ARE summoned by Jesus: Come to me....

    Of these many, most prefer their own way and not the way of Christ. A few say yes to Christ and are then led by the Father to Him. The choosing is quite mutual, just like for a wedding.
     
    #3 Helen, Mar 22, 2006
  4. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    And Paul fits this how?
     
    #4 Grasshopper, Mar 22, 2006
  5. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    And Paul fits this how? </font>[/QUOTE]Paul is an exception. God was cranky that day and didn't feel like a perfect gentleman. ;)

    Regardless, it's amazing how everyone who has responded so far has so thoroughly and completely missed the point of the original post.
     
    #5 npetreley, Mar 22, 2006
  6. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    And Paul fits this how? </font>[/QUOTE]Just like the Jesus calling to the Jews, inviting them to the wedding supper of the lamb, but they "REFUSED" to come, Matt 22.

    There's never been a man created with characteristic that couldn't be used by God,

    Strong will, determination are among the most "productive" for God,

    if man attempts to direct these characteristics, they become a "libility" to him,

    but If God is allowed to direct them they become an "ASSET" for both God and man.

    That's Paul, Peter, and me.
     
    #6 Me4Him, Mar 22, 2006
  7. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    So your real name is Mary?
     
    #7 npetreley, Mar 22, 2006
  8. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    And Paul fits this how? </font>[/QUOTE]Just like the Jesus calling to the Jews, inviting them to the wedding supper of the lamb, but they "REFUSED" to come, Matt 22.</font>[/QUOTE]Grasshopper - don't you sometimes feel like we live on another planet than free willers do? This answer to your question is about as relevant to your question as the answers were to my OP.
     
    #8 npetreley, Mar 22, 2006
  9. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    The called are the saved; the called-out (chosen) are the elect.
     
    #9 Hope of Glory, Mar 22, 2006
  10. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    And Paul fits this how? </font>[/QUOTE]First, we know Paul was searching for the truth and eager to defend what he was aware of of the truth -- which were the Hebrew Scriptures. He was zealous for God. He was doing everything he knew and has been taught to do to be righteous (even though he couldn't do it himself, remember that he had been taught that he could, through the Law).

    Therefore the Father led him to the Son, who appeared to him on the road to Damascus.
     
    #10 Helen, Mar 22, 2006
  11. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Wow, now there's a new interpretation I'd never heard before.

    13 Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and[a] cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
    14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

    The saved are weeping and need a dentist.
     
    #11 npetreley, Mar 22, 2006
  12. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    Sounds just like every other Jew of that time as well as describing many millions of Jews and non-Jews since then. Yet Jesus didn’t appear to anyone else. Playing favorites I guess.


    So the Father only leads some to the Son? Paul knew the Gospel message, he had made his free-will choice, why didn’t God honor that choice? Wasn't the Gospel Message God's way of leading Paul and all others to the Father?
     
    #12 Grasshopper, Mar 22, 2006
  13. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    Grasshopper, your argument is arguing for the sake of arguing now. We don't know how many the Lord leads to the Son -- how many want the truth. It is the Lord who judges the heart. We know thousands responded on the day of Pentecost and that they were Jews. We are not given the names.

    God did honor Paul's choice -- Paul wanted the truth. He did not recognize the truth of the message of Jesus. When the connection was made for him, he responded. My Dad was the same way. He heard 8 years of 14 sermons every Sunday when he was working at KRE in Berkeley when I was growing up. So many arguments. So many disagreements and fights among the pastors/brothers/fathers/priests/reverends/rabbis as they came and went through those doors, for they were all live broadcasts. And because of all that nonsense, my father did not connect the truth he wanted with what they were saying. But God chose HIS way and HIS time to honor my father's heart and my Dad died a believer.

    When people recognize that the Gospel message is the truth and when they want the truth then yes, the Father leads them to the Son. But when the way the Gospel message is presented does not connect with the truth someone is seeking, God will connect another way with the person so that they do, finally, understand the truth of the Gospel.

    Neither Paul nor my father initially connected Jesus with the truth. Both did in the end because both wanted the truth and God is faithful: Seek and ye shall find is a real thing.
     
    #13 Helen, Mar 22, 2006
  14. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    Wow, now there's a new interpretation I'd never heard before.

    13 Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and[a] cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
    14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

    The saved are weeping and need a dentist.     </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, those who are thrust out of the Kingdom will be weeping and gnashing their teeth, seeing what they have missed out on. Or, do you think that the lost will somehow sneak into heaven and then have to be ejected?
     
    #14 Hope of Glory, Mar 23, 2006
  15. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    You'll find that many things occur outside the "normal" course of things,

    that the scriptures may be fulfilled".
     
    #15 Me4Him, Mar 23, 2006
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