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Featured Mark 14:12.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by 37818, Feb 11, 2024.

  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Sadly most Christians do no really believe Mark 14:12, And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover? Being the 14th of Nisan as the day before Christ's crucifixion.
     
  2. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Conspicuously absent from your O.P., is something I believe that you may see as 'self-evident' and thus that there was no need in bringing it up(?)

    You have, "the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover," in there, as being "the 14th of Nisan as the day before Christ's crucifixion".

    But, Alas! There is no mention of "the day of the week".

    You and I have disagreed over this 28 times
    and there is every reason to believe we still will.

    The last time we visited this territory, however, some of what you said wasn't adding up and I told you that your timing of events was only "leaving Jonah,
    in the whale's belly less than 12 hours" and I asked you tell me that "it wasn't so", if you remember.

    Anyway, I found this information to be wonderful, although you won't, probably.

    I'll highlight in red where I believe that I know you don't agree and see if it strikes you as being, "Totally Believable, Now!"

    (looks like a lot you don't agree with, now that I did that...)
    ...

    "And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?" Mark 14:12. This brings us to the day of Tuesday, Nisan thirteenth.

    "This was our Lord's last day of freedom before His arrest and crucifixion.
    (Wednesday 14 Nison).

    "It is confusing because Mark prefixed this record with

    "And the first day of unleavened bread."

    "But we should keep in mind that the Gospel writers
    used terms according to the contemporary usage in their day,
    not strictly according to the definition of Mosaic law.

    "Josephus recorded that in those days
    the Jews celebrated "eight days of Unleavened Bread."


    "They included
    (Wednesday) the fourteenth of Nisan,
    the day that Moses designated as the
    "Passover,"
    in the feast of Unleavened Bread (which was only seven days long).

    "Josephus also said that it was customary to kill the lambs
    between three o'clock and five o'clock in the afternoon (Tuesday, 13 Nison)

    "before the Passover Supper,
    on (Wednesday)
    the evening of Nisan fourteenth,

    "which then were roasted and eaten in the evening"

    (on Wednesday the evening of Nisan fourteenth).

    "The Jews of Mark's day still ate the Passover on (Wednesday) the evening of Nisan fourteenth, but they often referred to this meal as the "first Chagigah."

    "Alfred Edersheim in his book, The Temple--Its Ministry and Services, tells us that "the Chagigah which was strictly a peace offering might be twofold.

    "The first Chagigah was offered on (Wednesday) the fourteenth of Nisan,
    the day of the Paschal sacrifice (Jesus' crucifixion)
    and formed afterwards part of the Paschal Supper.

    "The second Chagigah was offered on (Thursday) the fifteenth of Nisan,
    or the first day of the feast of Unleavened Bread."

    It is this second Chagigah which the Jews were afraid they might be unable to eat, if they contracted defilement in the judgment hall of Pilate. John 18:28.

    The Lord ate the "first Chagigah," which was the true Passover Supper, with His disciples. Since the Jews included (Wednesday) the fourteenth of Nisan
    in their designation
    "the Feast of Unleavened Bread,"

    and since they allowed the hours after three o'clock
    in the afternoon
    (Tuesday) on Nisan thirteenth
    to be considered as a part of Nisan fourteenth
    for the purpose of the slaying of the lamb,

    "then it seems that Mark was designating
    the late afternoon of
    (Tuesday) Nisan thirteenth

    in his prefix to this exchange between our Lord and His disciples
    (Mark 14:12).


    "And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover,

    (Again, the Jews included (Wednesday) the fourteenth of Nisan
    in their designation "the Feast of Unleavened Bread,"

    "and since they allowed the hours after three o'clock
    in the afternoon (Tuesday) on Nisan thirteenth
    to be considered as a part of Nisan fourteenth
    for the purpose of the slaying of the lamb,

    "then it seems that Mark was designating
    the late afternoon of
    (Tuesday) Nisan thirteenth
    in his prefix to this exchange between our Lord and His disciples.)


    "...his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go
    and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?"
    Mark 14:12.

    *So it was on Tuesday, Nisan thirteenth,
    that the disciples asked the Lord where He wished to eat the Passover
    .

    "Evidently Judas was present when this question was put to the Lord; and since the Lord knew of Judas' plot to betray Him, He replied in a guarded way. Instead of naming the place, the Lord Jesus Christ sent Peter and John to find and follow the man bearing a pitcher of water. (By the way, this instruction was not so ambiguous as it might seem to us because men normally did not carry water in those days.) This was evidently a clever method of delaying the betrayal by Judas until after the Paschal Supper. Judas would not know until the time of the supper itself where it was to take place.

    "This arrangement assured an uninterrupted evening
    following Tuesday, Nisan thirteenth.


    This brings us to the evening of Nisan fourteenth,
    the Wednesday on which our Lord would die.


    con't

    To: 8. Chronology: Wednesday 14 Nison and Thursday 15 Nison.
     
  3. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    8. Chronology: Wednesday 14 Nison and Thursday 15 Nison.

    "Immediately after sundown on Tuesday afternoon, (13 Nison)
    the fourteenth of Nisan began.

    "The lamb had been slain and roasted and was now ready in the upper room. The Lord Jesus Christ and His disciples arrived early after sunset and partook together of the Passover Feast (Wednesday 14 Nison).

    "And when the hour was come,
    he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.

    "And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
    "
    Luke 22:14-16.

    "It was on the occasion of this evening (Wednesday 14 Nison) that the disciples' feet were washed, the Lord's Supper was instituted, and that wonderful discourse of our Lord was given beginning with the words;
    "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me." John 14:1.

    The Lord Jesus Christ knew that Judas was anxious to bring the soldiers to arrest Him. So when the supper had progressed to a certain point, the Lord said to him, "That thou doest, do quickly." John 13:27. This gave the betrayer an opportunity to get away and carry out his unholy purpose.

    It is not the intent of this study to go into the details
    of those events of the crucifixion day.

    "The point that is important to our study of the chronology of the crucifixion week is that the crucifixion took place on Wednesday, Nisan fourteenth.

    "The Lord's body was placed in the tomb
    just as the sun was setting on that sad day.

    "And with the placing of His body in the tomb,
    the Fulfillment of the Lord's own Prophecy that He would be

    "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" was begun.

    (Which I am O.K. with and I really like seeing it there that way).

    "Three days later, again at sunset,
    (Saturday 17 Nison)
    He would come forth in resurrection life.


    "The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away." John 19:31.

    "This verse establishes that
    the day following our Lord's crucifixion
    was a
    "high day", (Thursday 15 Nison).

    "That in turn established that it was (Thursday) Nisan fifteenth,
    the great Passover Sabbath,
    the day that God had designated as
    "the first day of unleavened bread."

    "The Passover Sabbath was the greatest Jewish Sabbath of the year.

    *This Thursday Passover Sabbath (15 Nison)

    was not only a day of rest and worship
    like Saturday, the seventh-day Sabbath (17 Nison)

    but, unlike that day
    (the Saturday, the seventh-day Sabbath 17 Nison),
    this Thursday Passover Sabbath (15 Nison) was a "high day."


    "The fifteenth of Nisan fell on a different day each year,

    and that particular year it fell on Thursday (15 Nison)
    as the Scriptural "time-points" clearly affirm."

    from:
    CHRONOLOGY OF THE CRUCIFIXION WEEK.
    by Wayne Carver

    The Christian Jew Foundation.

    (A lot more great stuff there, according to me).
     
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Depends on the year of occurrence. And how the Jewish first of each month is reckoned according to the observation of the new moon.

    14th of Nisan

    27 A.D. Wednesday
    28 A.D. Monday
    29 A.D. Sabbath day
    30 A.D. Wednesday
    31 A.D. Monday
    32 A.D. Monday
    33 A.D. Friday
    34 A.D. Monday

    Now the non- Jewish typically fail to understand the Jewish dates begin with their evenings. So the day of Preparation before the 7th day Sabbath begins on our Thursday evening!

    Mark 15:42, And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, . . .
     
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    .
    14th of Nisan begins

    27 A.D. Tuesday evening
    28 A.D. Sunday evening
    29 A.D. Sabbath Friday evening
    30 A.D. Tuesday evening
    31 A.D. Sunday evening
    32 A.D. Sunday evening
    33 A.D. Thursday evening
    34 A.D. Sunday evening
     
  6. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Yep, there appears to be no way that you are ever going to except
    the existence of the Annual High Day Sabbath, on 15 Nison, that has
    It's Preparation Day the day before that, on 14 Nison.

    You have a presupposition that this following verse, Mark 15:42,
    refers to: "the preparation", Friday, speaking of
    "the day before" the Weekly 7th day "sabbath," Saturday.

    I have the presupposition that the following verse, Mark 15:42,
    refers to: "the preparation", Wednesday, speaking of
    "the day before" the Annual High Day "sabbath", Thursday.

    from: The Two Sabbaths of Passover.

    "Leviticus 23 gives us the important and “missing” information in the traditional teaching. Because we have not bothered to put the New Testament account into its Old Testament framework, we have misunderstood and misconstrued the events of the Passover season in which Y’shua died and was resurrected.

    "Therefore, to understand what happened, let’s look at this missing info.

    5 "In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight
    (when God says a new day begins) is Yahweh's Passover.

    6 'Then on the fifteenth day of the same month
    there is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to Yahweh;
    for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread.

    7 'On the first day you shall have
    a holy convocation; you shall not do any laborious work.

    8 'But for seven days you shall present an offering by fire to Yahweh.
    On the seventh day is a holy convocation; you shall not do any laborious work.'"
    Leviticus 23:5-8.

    "This passage tells us that the Passover is on the 14th
    and the Feast of Unleavened Bread begins the 15th; they are back-to-back.

    "The first day (and the last day) of the Feast of Unleavened Bread is a Sabbath.

    "This is a “special” (Annual) Sabbath, also called a “high Sabbath”.

    "Therefore, the Sabbath for which Y’shua had to be removed from the cross
    was the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, not the weekly Sabbath...

    "Unlike the weekly Sabbath that is every Friday night to Saturday night,
    this special Sabbath can fall on any day of the week (Thursday, in this case).


    "Are there New Testament Scriptures that give us this information
    about this special Annual High Day Sabbath?

    "Yes, there are:


    52this man (Joseph of Arimathea) went to Pilate
    and asked for the body of Y’shua.

    53 And he took it down and wrapped it in a linen cloth,
    and laid Him in a tomb cut into the rock, where no one had ever lain.

    54 And it was the preparation day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.
    Luke 23:52-54

    (It was the Wednesday 14 Nison preparation day
    and the Thursday 15 Nison Sabbath was about to begin).

    31 The Jews therefore, because it was the day of preparation,
    so that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath
    (for that Sabbath was a high day) John 19:31

    (Again, "the day of preparation" Wednesday 14 Nison
    and "that Sabbath was a high day", Thursday 15 Nison)

    42 Therefore on account of the Jewish day of preparation,
    because the tomb was nearby, they laid Y’shua there. John 19:42

    ("the Jewish day of preparation" Wednesday 14 Nison).

    "Passover (Wednesday 14 Nison) is not a Sabbath.

    "It is the day of preparation (Wednesday 14 Nison)
    for the High Sabbath
    that is the first day of the (seven day) Feast of Unleavened Bread.¹

    "Y’shua died on Passover (Wednesday 14 Nison)
    but was removed from the cross before sunset,
    which began the High Sabbath (Thursday 15 Nison)
    the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

    "To make all of these events fit,
    we can count backwards from the weekly Sabbath (Saturday 17 Nison)
    and figure out what evening Y’shua and the disciples had the Passover meal
    and what day He was crucified.

    "The timeline of events would look like this:

    13 Nison Tuesday after 6:00 pm/14 Nison Wednesday night –
    Passover Seder (meal), prayer in Gethsemane,
    arrested, brought before the Jews

    14 Nison Wednesday morning –
    before Pilate, on the cross by 9 a.m., dead by 3 p.m.²

    14 Nison Wednesday night –
    Y’shua in the tomb – first night, High Sabbath begins

    15 Nison Thursday –
    Y’shua in the tomb – first day, High Sabbath,

    15 Nison Thursday night –
    Y’shua in the tomb, second night, end of High Sabbath

    16 Nison Friday –
    Y’shua in the tomb, second day, spices bought & prepared

    16 Nison Friday night –
    Y’shua in the tomb, third night, weekly Sabbath begins

    17 Nison Saturday –
    Y’shua in the tomb third day, weekly Sabbath

    17 Nison Saturday Night –
    Y’shua NOT IN THE TOMB, End of weekly Sabbath.

    "In order for Y’shua’s words
    to be fulfilled of three days AND three nights in the earth,
    He could not have spent a fourth night in the tomb!

    "Therefore, sometime before sunset and the end of Saturday, Y’shua arose."
     
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You are confused. I had explained clearly.

    Exodus 12:18 presents the 8 days and the 7 days of unleavened bread.

    There is no passage which says the first day of the feast of unleavened bread is a "high sabbath."
     
  8. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    ...WAY...TO...GO...!

    The ONE question you could ask by putting "high" WITH "sabbath"
    and then say, "There is no passage which says,
    "the first day of the feast of unleavened bread is a "high sabbath."


    You rascal, you always handcuff the equation, with a special added axiom,
    before we can get to square one...

    Then,...you can still say,
    "no passage" exactly says "high sabbath".

    Great.

    ...WAY...TO...GO...!

    So, the question is, whether, or not:
    "the first day of the feast of unleavened bread is a "high sabbath."


    In the following, we see,

    1.) the phrase in John 19:31

    identifying the day after the crucifixion as a special Sabbath,

    and John calls that special sabbath, "a high day."

    "The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation,"

    (the day of preparation before
    "that sabbath day" that "was a high day")

    "that the bodies
    should not remain upon the cross on
    the sabbath day,
    (for
    that sabbath day was a high day,)..."

    "the sabbath day,
    (for that sabbath day was a high day,)" =
    the day after the crucifixion was a special Sabbath.


    2.) "The special Sabbath John referred to
    is the Feast of Unleavened Bread,

    and it’s a date specific holy day;
    always observed on the 15th of the month they call Nisan.

    3.)
    "So the first thing we learn is that
    the special Sabbath mentioned in John 19:31 (quoted above),
    didn’t have to be a Saturday."

    4.) "Originally there were four special days in the month of Nisan.
    "The first was
    Passover on the 14th (called the day of preparation),

    "Then the Feast of Unleavened Bread which began on the 15th

    and ended on the 22nd, both of which were special Sabbaths."

    So, again, the Feast of Unleavened Bread is a special Sabbath,
    beginning on 15 Nison.


    To answer the question is, whether, or not:

    "the first day of the feast of unleavened bread is a "high sabbath,"

    we see where 1.) is equal to 2.).

    1.) the day after the day of preparation, on which Jesus was crucified,

    was a special Sabbath, that John calls "a high day,"

    = 2.) "The special Sabbath , that John calls "a high day,"
    is the Feast of Unleavened Bread,
    and it’s a date specific holy day;
    always observed on the 15th of the month they call Nisan.


    So, there we have answered the question:

    "the first day of the feast of unleavened bread" (2.)
    is ( = ) a "high day" (1.), "sabbath" (1.)

    Plus, we have the extra information that this
    high day sabbath
    on "the first day of the feast of unleavened bread"
    is ( = ) always observed on the 15th of the month they call Nisan (2.).


    + 3.) we have the extra qualifier and confirmation that
    the special high day sabbath,
    on
    "the first day of the feast of unleavened bread," 15 Nison,
    mentioned in John 19:31 (quoted above),

    didn’t have to be a Saturday."

    + 4.) to that we add more information:


    "The day of preparation, is ( = ) called the Passover on 14 Nison,

    & the day after, "the Feast of Unleavened Bread

    began with a high day sabbath, 15 Nison,

    and ended on a high day sabbath, 22 Nison.
    ...

    con't w/ scripture proof, at next post #9, or click here: Mark 14:12.
     
    #8 Alan Gross, Feb 16, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2024
    • Funny Funny x 1
  9. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    LET'S MAKE SURE OF ALL OF THIS, FROM THE BOOK;





    ...

    What’s A Sabbath?

    "Some people who were unfamiliar
    with the sequence of the spring Feasts of Israel
    determined that the phrase in John 19:31
    identifying the day after the crucifixion as a special Sabbath


    "meant that Jesus was crucified on a Friday,
    because "everyone knows that the Jewish Sabbath is Saturday".

    "And almost "everyone agrees that He rose again on Sunday."


    "But there isn’t any way you can put
    three days and three nights
    between Friday afternoon and Sunday morning.
    Hence the controversy."


    "So let’s set the record straight.

    "Sabbath is a Hebrew word that means rest”
    and refers to holy days when no work is allowed.

    "There is one every Saturday in Israel,
    but there are also several during the year that are date specific.

    "That means they are always observed
    on a specific calendar date, regardless of the day of the week.


    "They’re like our Christmas.

    "Every year it comes on the 25th of December
    no matter what day of the week that happens to be.

    "The special Sabbath John referred to
    is the Feast of Unleavened Bread,
    and it’s a date specific holy day;
    always observed on the 15th of the month they call Nisan,

    which corresponds to March/April on our calendar.

    "So the first thing we learn is that the special Sabbath
    mentioned in John 19:31 didn’t have to be a Saturday."


    "Originally there were four special days
    in the month of Nisan.

    "The first was Passover on the 14th.

    "Then the Feast of Unleavened Bread which began on the 15th

    and ended on the 22nd, both of which were special Sabbaths."
     
  10. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    "In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even,
    ye shall eat unleavened bread,
    until the one and twentieth day of the month at even."

    "In the first month,
    .... As it was now ordered to be reckoned,
    the month Abib or Nisan:

    "the fourteenth day of the month at even,
    ye shall eat unleavened bread";

    that is, at the evening following, the fourteenth of Nisan,
    and which was the beginning of the fifteenth day,
    the Jews beginning their day from the evening:

    "hence the Targum of Jonathan is,
    "on the fourteenth of Nisan ye shall slay the passover,
    in the evening of the fifteenth ye shall eat unleavened bread:"


    "unto the twentieth day of the month at even;
    which would make just seven days;

    "the above Targum adds,
    "on the evening of the twenty second
    ye shall eat leavened bread,
    ''which was the evening following the twenty-first day."

    Exodus 12 Gill's Exposition


    "Scripture explicitly says
    that there were two Sabbaths in Christ's final week.

    "The High Sabbath being Nisan 15 [Wed sundown -Thursday day]
    ** Remember Jewish days go sundown to sundown - Evening and Day.

    "Jews used a Lunar calendar, and the cool thing is that
    the new moon is the start of every month,
    and because Passover is always the 14th of Nisan,
    it means Passover is always on a full moon.

    "The Pharisees asked Christ for a sign that he really was the Messiah,
    and he only gave one sign and this was the sign of Jonah,
    which Christ quoted in Matthew.

    "Just as Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the great fish,
    so the son of man will be
    3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth."


    "Scripture says that the women bought rested on the sabbath (Thursday),
    and bought spices after the sabbath (Friday).

    "This is impossible to buy spices after dark on Saturday night
    - after the weekly Sabbath.

    "They rested on High Sabbath - Thursday,
    bought spices on Friday, after the High Sabbath (Thursday),
    and before the weekly Sabbath (Saturday).

    "In the 1st century, the only light besides the sun and moon were candles
    and torches. Buying and selling was forbidden on Sabbaths.
    So the idea of buying spices
    after sunset on Saturday night is patently absurd.

    "No one would go set up their goods to sell in the dark,
    after the Sabbath had ended.

    "So they rested on the High Sabbath-feast of Unleavened bread- Thursday.

    "Bought spices on Friday, and then rested on the weekly sabbath (Saturday).

    This is also why they had to get the bodies down from the cross
    before the high Sabbath (Thursday) - Feast of Unleavened Bread .

    "Wednesday at sunset to Saturday at Sunset is 3 days and 3 nights
    - just like Jesus himself said.

    (Extra thoughts:)

    "The other interesting thing is that
    we have 3 separate accounts of people
    being dead for at least 3 full days and nights, and rising again.

    "Lazarus, Jesus, and the 2 witnesses in Revelation.

    "This is because according to Jewish world view, and burial customs
    - the spirit lingers near the body for 3 days
    - so they would not be fully dead, but in a coma.

    "After 3 days, the soul or spirit leaves
    so there they would be truly dead,
    and no one would say they were in a coma,
    and thus- no chance of resurrecting.


    "This is what makes the resurrection so amazing.

    "Either we can trust the words Christ said,
    and the only sign He gave that he was the Messiah, or we can't.

    "It's impossible to get 3 days and 3 nights from 1 day and parts of 2 days.

    "It also requires that we totally disregard the clear words of scripture
    and even the words of Christ Himself
    and a Friday crucifixion cannot answer the problem of the spices
    and 3 days and 3 nights."

    from:

    Was there a special Sabbath
    in addition to Passover when Jesus was crucified?
     
  11. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Depends on the year of occurrence.

    I'm going to go with A.D. 31, as I always have.

    In a.d. 31, the year of Christ’s death, Passover fell on a Wednesday.

    The calendar stuff I'm looking at here is different than yours.


    What Year Did Christ Die?

    "To establish the actual year of Christ’s death, it is necessary to select a year to test, overlay the known facts, and look for conflicts. Just as with any other point in God’s Word, there must be complete harmony and agreement among the known facts.

    "As will be seen, there are several dates that can be used to establish, beyond any doubt, the year of Christ’s death as a.d. 31.

    "The prophecy in Daniel 9:25-26 states there would be 69 (prophetic) weeks from the decree to rebuild the temple until the Messiah would come. That amounts to 483 days. In prophecy we often apply the “day for a year” principle, which computes to 483 years for this prophecy.

    "Both Jewish and Persian records indicate the first year of the reign of Artaxerxes was 464-463 b.c. This places the seventh year of his reign and the year he issued his decree to rebuild the temple at 458-457 b.c. (Ezra 7:8).

    "Further evidence of the year of the decree of Artaxerxes can be found in several other sources, including the Canon of Ptolemy, the Encyclopedia Britannica (online) and documents and records concerning astronomy.

    "Again, the Messiah was prophesied to appear 483 years from this decree being established. Four-hundred eighty-three years later would be exactly a.d. 27 (remember, there is no year zero).

    “Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two [7+62] weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times”

    (Daniel 9:25). Again, 69 prophetic weeks are equal to 483 years.

    "Another evidence of the years of Christ is found in John 2:20:
    “Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?”
    Jamieson, Fausset and Brown’s commentary states the following about this verse: “From the 18th year of Herod, from which we are to date this building work of his, until this time, was just a period of 46 years.” Since Herod began to rule in 37 b.c., his 18th year was 20 b.c. Forty-six years from 20 b.c. is a.d. 27. Christ started His ministry, following His baptism, in the year a.d. 27.

    "Luke tells us that Christ was 30 years old when He was baptized (Luke 3:23). As Mr. Armstrong wrote in the booklet The Crucifixion Was Not on Friday, Luke did not say Christ was about 29 or about 31. He said Christ was “about 30 years of age.” This would mean that Jesus would have been born in the year 4 b.c. Proof of the year of Christ’s birth further substantiates the year of His death.

    "With this, and the Daniel prophecy, we can see that Jesus Christ was 30 years old and started His ministry in the year a.d. 27. This means that His birth occurred in 4 b.c., His ministry started in a.d. 27, and He died 3 1⁄2 years later at Passover in a.d. 31.

    More Proof.

    "We know that Joseph and Mary went to Bethlehem to be taxed (Luke 2: 1-5). By establishing the year of the census we can determine the year of Christ’s birth. Unger’s Bible Dictionary, in a long and detailed article titled “Chronology,” determines the year of this tax to be 4 b.c.

    "The Chronicle of John Malalas states this: “In the 39th year and the 10th month of his [Augustus’s] reign, he commanded the taking of a census of all his lands, including all that the Romans held during the consulship of Agrippa II, and of Donatus. And all the Earth under the Romans was registered by Eumenes and Attalus, the Roman senators.”

    "Mr. Armstrong, in The Crucifixion Was Not on Friday, comments on this: “Using the October-to-October calendar Malalas used, that dates the 39th year as October 6 b.c. to October 5 b.c., and the issuance of the decree for the census to July 5 b.c.” Mr. Armstrong went on to refer the reader to the word chronology in Unger’s Bible Dictionary.

    "Unger’s states: “The latest word touching these enrollments is that given by the eminent Augustus W. Zumpt, the classical scholar and archaeologist of Berlin, whose recent researches have secured us ‘full historical probability, and whose conclusions of the date of the birth of Christ at the time of the census taken 4 b.c. by Cyrenius is indorsed by the scholarly Mommsen, and accords with the view of Ideler, Bergmann, Browne, Ussher, and Sanclemente’ (Schaff).”

    "Luke 2:1-6 states, “And it came to pass in those days,
    that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus,
    that all the world should be taxed.
    (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)

    "And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.
    And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth,
    into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem;
    (because he was of the house and lineage of David:)

    "To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
    And so it was, that, while they were there,
    the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.”


    "It is clear from these verses that Christ was born when Mary and Joseph were in Bethlehem for purposes of the taxing,
    which is to say the time of the census—4 b.c.

    "It follows that Christ was born in 4 b.c.

    "Even without the other evidence,
    this establishes the year of Christ’s death as a.d. 31.


    "So we see again that Jesus Christ was born in 4 b.c.,
    began His ministry in the fall of a.d. 27
    and died in the spring of a.d. 31 on Wednesday,
    the day after the Passover service.

    "Then—count for yourself—
    Jesus was raised from the dead at the end of Saturday, God’s Sabbath, three days and three nights after He died!



    Which Day Was Christ Buried?


    "The evidence of the death of Jesus Christ occurring on Wednesday
    comes directly from the Bible.

    "The Bible clearly states that Christ
    was buried near the beginning of a Sabbath
    (Luke 23:50-54).

    "Since the biblical days begin at sunset, He was buried just before or exactly at sunset. It was not done later, after the Sabbath had commenced, as this was prohibited. Matthew and Mark likewise state that the burial occurred at evening (Matthew 27:57-60; Mark 15:42-46).

    "A brief review of the preceding hours proves the next day
    was called the first day of Unleavened Bread,
    and not the weekly seventh-day Sabbath as so many falsely assume.


    "Jesus Christ kept the Passover with His disciples
    the night before He was killed
    (Mark 14:12-17; Luke 22:8).

    "The day after Passover is a high day.

    "The first day of Unleavened Bread begins the festival season.


    "The Jamieson, Fausset and Brown Commentary states:
    “And though ‘the Days of Unleavened Bread’
    properly began with the 15th,
    the preparations for the festival being made on the 14th ….”

    "This correctly refers to
    the day before the high day as a preparation day.

    "Since Passover is on the 14th of Abib/Nisan
    the day of the week changes from year to year.

    "That means the preparation day changes from year to year
    and is not necessarily on Friday as is the weekly preparation day.

    "In fact, Nisan 14 was a Wednesday in a.d. 31.


    "Any simple Hebrew calendar program or book
    will demonstrate this fact.

    "On average, Passover will only fall on Friday three out of 19 years.

    "The other 16 years it will be some other day, yet it is still called a preparation day because the next day is a high day, or annual Sabbath day.


    In a.d. 31, the year of Christ’s death, Passover fell on a Wednesday.

    "That means He ate the Passover supper
    at the beginning of the 14th of Abib,
    or just after sunset on what today’s Roman calendar calls Tuesday."
     
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You claim the 14th of Nisan in 31 A.D. was a Wednesday.
    I have a Monday.
     
  13. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I know, you have some sources that you use
    to derive a what day of the week it is, for any given year
    that has a different day of the week, in A.D. 31.

    And there you have it.
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You have a source.
    [At one time I had calculated April 26th to be Thursday, to be I supposed was Nisan the 15th 31 A.D. But it was the wrong month.]

    Here is the tool I use.
    Calendar Converter
     
    #14 37818, Mar 10, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2024
  15. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    I have a few sources from which I am still just Drawing a Conjecture.

    And, I'd be crazy, to assume that any of the dates below are fully reliable.

    So, this source is just typical of those that aid me in, what remains to be:

    "Drawing a Conjecture
    regarding the probable year the Crucifixion of Christ actually took place,
    an article written by Jimmy Akin on April 10, 2013
    and published on the National Catholic Register
    provides several clues.

    re: 7 Clues Tell Us *Precisely* When Jesus Died
    (the Year, Month, Day and Hour Revealed)
    .

    "First Clue
    pertains to the years of high priest Caiaphas occupation in office,
    about AD 18 to AD 36.

    "Second Clue
    pertains to the years of Pilate's occupation in office,
    AD 26 to AD 36.

    "Third Clue
    pertains to the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar,
    AD 27 to AD 36.

    "From AD 27 to AD 36,
    there are two Passover nights which fall on Tuesday evening,
    Tuesday March 27 AD 31 and Tuesday April 12, AD 35.


    "According to Luke 3:23, Jesus was about thirty years old
    when He began His ministry.

    "It was about 27 AD, the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar
    when John the baptist started heralding the coming of the Messiah
    as recorded in Luke chapter 3:1-3.

    "History records that Tiberius Caesar reigned as Roman emperor
    during AD 14 to 37 AD.

    "Thus Jesus could have started His public ministry in 27 AD.

    "John the beloved Apostle records three Passover with Jesus.

    "From here we can deduce that Jesus spent about three years
    in public ministry before He was crucified.

    "Scholars believed He died at the age of 33.

    "We can therefore conclude that March 28 AD 31, Wednesday at 3 P.M.
    is the most probable timing of His crucifixion
    and was resurrected three days after on March 31,
    a sabbath before sundown.

    "Though still, I cannot be dogmatic about it.

    "It is highly probable that Christ died on the Passover of 31 AD."

    (Alan's Note: Because of the following:)

    "Based on my close examination of the Scriptures,
    it is revealed that Christ died on Wednesday afternoon at three P.M.,
    and was resurrected on the following Sabbath before sundown.

    "What made me conclude this?

    "The verse that supports this argument
    is found on Matthew 12:40, the Sign of Jonah.

    "For as Jonah was three days and three nights
    in the belly of a huge fish,

    "so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights
    in the heart of the earth."


    "Based on Matthew 28:1-6, it was after Sabbath at dawn, on the first day of the week (Sunday) that Mary Magdalene and other Mary discovered the empty tomb of Jesus. Jesus would have had to have resurrected already before these two women went to the tomb at dawn. If Jesus died on Friday afternoon, then this is not consistent with Matthew 12:40. Friday afternoon up to Sunday dawn does not sum up to three days and three nights.

    "Wednesday afternoon up to Saturday afternoon does add up to three days and three nights. Three days - daytime of Thursday, Friday and Saturday while three nights - night time of Wednesday, Thursday and Friday and His body did not spend night time on Saturday but resurrected before Saturday sundown. Thus when the women arrived at the tomb on Sunday dawn, the Lord had already resurrected.

    "The argument that the Lord died on Thursday and resurrected on Sunday is also not consistent with Matthew 12:40. If the Lord died on Thusday afternoon, to be consistent with the sign of Jonah He must resurrect on Sunday before sundown but it was indicated in Matthew 28 that by Sunday dawn, He has already resurrected. Thus the Good Friday or Thursday crucifixion is not supported by the Scripture.

    "Based on the account of Matthew as recorded in Matthew chapters 21 up to 28, the passion week of Christ took place during the celebration of Passover week.

    "Based on certain sources, Christ entered Jerusalem on Nisan 10.

    "This was the time when Jesus entered Jerusalem riding on a donkey
    while the crowd were waving their palm branches to greet Him.

    "The Passover night is celebrated on Nisan 14. In Israel, the new day starts after sundown and lasts until next sundown of the following day. Their daytime lasts for 12 hours from 6 am until 6 pm. Their nighttime lasts for another 12 hours from 6 pm until 6 am. It is indicated in the Scripture that Jesus died on the ninth hour of the day which is actually three in the afternoon.

    "Some early historical documents reveal a Tuesday night Passover
    and a Wednesday afternoon crucifixion and a Saturday sunset resurrection.

    "About the year 200 AD, a document claiming to pass on apostolic instruction called "Didascalia Apostolorum", mentions that the last Passover of Jesus Christ and His disciples was a Tuesday night.

    "This information was taken from an article
    published in Beyond Today written by Mario Seiglie on April 2, 2006."
     
  16. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    As a reference:

    The Crucifixion Was Not On Friday
    by Herman L. Hoeh is one of the most detailed explanations I've seen.

    I can't even imagine where he came up with all the different considerations
    he's made for calculating the year Jesus was Crucified.

    It can read like this:

    "On Which Day of the Week?"

    "It is very simple to find on which day of the week this was so long ago.

    "There were 1900 years between 31 A.D. and 1931.

    "Since each year averaged 365 1/4 days, just multiply this figure by 1900!

    "And the answer is 693,975 days
    between Saturday, August 30 in 1931 and August 30 in 31 A.D.


    "On which day of the week was this? Divide 693,975 days by 7
    and you will have the number of weeks that elapsed!

    "The answer is 99,139 weeks and 2 days.

    "That means that August 30 in 31 A.D.
    was exactly 99,139 weeks and 2 days earlier than in 1931.


    "It was thus two days earlier in the week! It was Saturday in 1931.

    "August 30 was therefore Thursday in 31 A.D.


    "This would make October 4,
    the exact time of the conjunction of the seventh new moon, a THURSDAY!

    "So we have now found that the new moon
    which determined the seventh month of the year in 31 A.D.
    occurred on a Thursday October 4,
    23 hours, 52 minutes and 16 2/3 seconds after the previous midnight.


    "To put it in another way,
    it occurred Thursday, October 4, 16 2/3 seconds after 11:52 p.m.

    "One of the rules God gave to the Israelites for determining the calendar is that if the new moon occurs after noon, the first day of the seventh month is postponed to the following day. As the new moon occurred over 11 hours after noon on Thursday, October 4, that day could not be the first day of the seventh month.

    "But another rule of the Sacred Calendar, which God revealed to the Israelites, is that the first day of the seventh month cannot occur on a Friday (see the Jewish Encyclopedia). If it were to occur on a Friday, then the 10th day of the month would occur on a Sunday.

    "The 10th day is an annual Sabbath (Lev. 23:27; Acts 27:9),
    but as no annual sabbath in the autumn
    is permitted to occur on Sunday,
    the beginning of the seventh month cannot therefore occur on Friday.

    "So the first day of the seventh month in 31 A.D.
    was postponed to a Saturday, October 6,
    according to the inspired rules of the Hebrew Calendar!"


    Then, the very next thing he talks about is in his conclusion
    that I posted under the next quote,
    where it says,
    "Passover on Wednesday!"

    Pretty wild stuff!

    "Passover on Wednesday!"

    "In 31 A.D. the sixth month (which has 29 days)
    began on Friday, September 7.


    And the fifth month (which has 30 days) on Wednesday, August 8.
    The fourth month (with 29 days) on Tuesday, July 10.
    The third month (with 30 days) began on Sunday, June 10.
    The second (29 days) on Saturday, May 12.

    "And Nisan or Abib, the month in which Jesus was crucified,
    began on Thursday, April 12, in 31 A.D.

    "Thursday, April 12, was the first of Abib.

    "Then the Passover — the day on which Jesus was crucified —
    which is the 14th day of the month,
    OCCURRED ON WEDNESDAY, APRIL 25, IN 31 A.D."
     
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Per the Jewish calendar it is the 14th of Lyyar 3791. Wedensday yes, wrong Jewish month.

    Calendar Converter
    Did you even check?

    Note:
     
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Luke 24:20-21, . . . And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

    That day is understood to be the first day of the week.
    So the second day since would be that Sabbath. Then the first day since would be our Friday. But if the crucifixion was on Wedensday, the first day since would be the Thursday, not the Friday. This makes it clear Luke 24:20-21 rules out a Wedensday crucifixion.
     
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Gives;
    A.D. 29..............Saturday, April 16
    A.D. 30............Wednesday, April 5
    A.D. 31............ Wednesday, April 25
    A.D. 32............... Monday, April 14
    A.D. 33................ Friday, April 3

    Agrees with Calendar Converter
    Except 31 A.D. gives Monday, March 26th
     
  20. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    The key to calculating that "three days", as I had started to say before,
    are these words;
    Like what are they talking about and mean when they say,
    "since these things were done"
    so that we can know exactly what they actually saying in context,
    AND WHERE WE NEED TO START TO CALCULATE THE THREE DAYS?

    (But, However, Behold!, I knew you wouldn't care about it in the least! :Frown)

    "What is the problem with this scripture?

    "Simply it is the phrase "today is the third day" (Luke 24:21),
    and the fact that we have been taught that Jesus died
    and was buried on the 14th Nisan, a Wednesday afternoon.


    "Now if we count the days from then, Thursday would be the first day,
    Friday would be the second day, and Saturday would be the third day,
    but this conversation on the Emmaus road is Sunday afternoon.

    "This we know because it is said to be "on the same day" (Luke 24:13),
    which refers back to "on the first day of the week" (Luke 24:1 KJV)
    or "on one day from the Sabbath" (Luke 24:1 RPT).

    "So there is an apparent disagreement that needs to be explained.

    "The question to ask is, "What are THESE THINGS?"
    that these men referred to?" - from where this three-day period started.

    "To know the answer we must look back at the previous verses
    to see what they were referring to.

    "In verse 18 Cleopas said to Jesus,

    "Are you only sojourning in Jerusalem,
    and have not known the things
    which came to pass there in these days?"


    "Then in verse 19 Jesus asked him a question, "What things?"

    "Well, this is what we need to know, so look at his reply;
    "Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, who was a prophet
    powerful in deed and word before God and all the people."


    "So the things that "these things" referred to in verse 21
    are the things concerning Jesus of Nazareth.

    "This would include His arrest, trial, crucifixion, death,
    the piercing of His side, His removal from the cross,
    the anointing of His body, His burial,
    and the sealing of the tomb on the following day.

    (Matthew 27:62) "And on the next day,
    which is after the preparation,
    the chief priests and Pharisees had gathered together to Pilate,

    63 "Saying, Sir, we remembered that that deceiver said,

    while He was living, After three days I will arise.

    64 "Command therefore that

    the tomb be secured until the third day,
    lest His disciples coming by night, steal Him away,

    "and say to the people,
    He was raised from the dead:
    and the last deception shall be worse than the first.

    65 "Pilate said to them, You have a guard:

    go your way, make it as sure as you know how.

    66 "So when they had gone, they made the tomb secure,

    sealing the stone, with a guard."


    "How can we know that this sealing of the tomb
    was one of the events included in "these things" (Luke 24:21)?

    "Here are some reasons:

    (1) The meeting of the scribes and Pharisees with Pontius Pilate
    was "about", "concerning", or "to do with" Jesus.

    "The sealing of the tomb was "about", "concerning",
    or "to do with" Jesus, which is what the Greek word περὶ (Gtr. peri)
    translated "concerning" means.

    "So the things that the disciples were talking about,
    "Concerning Jesus of Nazareth"
    (Luke 24:19),
    would have included the sealing of the tomb.

    "It cannot be said that this only refers to events that happened
    while Jesus was alive, because 'peri'
    is often used in other places concerning dead people,
    and Jesus after He died,
    (Matthew 17:13, Acts 1:16, 25:9, 28:23, 28:31,
    1 Thessalonians 4:13, 1 John 5:9, 5:10, Jude 1:9).

    (2) If the events referred to were only his arrest, trial,
    crucifixion, and death, and nothing after,
    then the disciples would have been referring
    to events that happened "on that day" - the Passover.

    "But they referred to,
    "the things which came to pass there in these days"
    (Luke 24:18).

    "Note the plural "days",
    and note also that the word "there" refers to "in Jerusalem" (Luke 24:18).

    "So they must have referred to events on more than one day,
    namely the 14th and 15th Nisan, the Passover
    and the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.


    "They were not referring to events that happened
    before this because Jesus did not enter Jerusalem
    until the day of the Passover (Matthew 26:17-18, Mark 14:12-13).

    (3) After the sealing of the tomb,
    little is recorded in scripture of anything that happened
    until the women came to the tomb on Sunday morning.

    "There are therefore two complete days, the 16th and 17th of Nisan,
    where nothing is recorded about what the Romans
    or the Jews did concerning Jesus.

    "Sunday was therefore the third day after the sealing of the tomb.

    "This is the same third day that the chief priests
    and the Pharisees mentioned when they said,

    "Command therefore that the tomb be secured
    until the third day"
    (Matthew 27:64).

    "This referred to the day after the Sabbath
    as the guards were still there that morning (Matthew 28:4);
    the same day that the disciples were on the Emmaus road.

    "This is what "this is the third day" (Luke 24:21) refers to." :Thumbsup
     
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