Martin Luther King Jr. and influences on Black churches

[JonC]

Because of a recent inquiry (brought on by a comment here) I’ve been reading The Papers of Martin Luther King Jr. (on Stanford University’s The Martin Luther King Jr. Research and Education Institute).

I want to start off by saying that my comments in no way disparage his contributions in the Civil Right’s Movement. This is another topic entirely.

Martin Luther King pastored one church (from 1954 to 1960), the Dexter Avenue King Memorial Baptist Church in Montgomery AL. He is often (where I live, anyway) associated with Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta GA (where I understand he was ordained).

I had always assumed, therefore, that Martin Luther King Jr. was Christian. But it is very apparent I was wrong.

Martin Luther King Jr. did not believe that Christ was divine – except in his submission to God. MLK did not believe that Christ was “the Word made flesh” or like God in any supernatural sense. He did not believe Christ was born of a virgin. Instead He believed that Jesus was “divine” in that he stood “in unity with God and man”. Jesus “became a true son of man by becoming a true son of God….[he]completely opened his life to the influence of the divine spirit.”

He did not believe that there will be a “Seconding coming” of Christ (physically) but instead that every time we “turn our hearts to the highest and the best there is for us the Christ”.

He did not believe in “a day of Judgment” where Christ will judge but rather a judgment whereby we can measure ourselves by the standards of Christ.

Martin Luther King Jr. did not believe in the resurrection of Christ. Instead he saw this as a myth that arose out of the early church who were ”captivated by the magnetic power of [Jesus’] personality.” Which led to “the faith that he [Jesus] could never die”. The “resurrection” is merely an outward expression of the inner experience. “The people saw within Jesus such a uniqueness of quality and spirit that to explain him in terms of ordinary background was to them quite inadequate”. They could only account for Jesus “in terms of biological uniqueness”. MLK contends they were not being “unscientific in their approach because they had no knowledge of the scientific.”. The “myth” of orthodox Christianity (Jesus being born of a virgin, Jesus being God, Jesus rising from the dead, Jesus coming again physically) are all expressions of “true Christianity” poorly expressed by today’s standards but adequate to the early church.


We know that Martin Luther King Jr. (like Thomas Jefferson) looked to the Bible and Christianity as essential - BUT not as Christians. They followed Jesus not as the Son of God but as a moral teacher (they did not believe in the supernatural aspects of Christianity). I would argue that MLK was closer to Christianity than Jefferson....but closeness does not a Christian make.


My question is whether or not these influences are in traditional Black churches in America. I am asking (I do not know). Are Black churches more prone to replace the gospel of Jesus Christ with a social gospel?

 

[canadyjd]

I suspect, but have no widespread experience on the topic, that majority black churches have a wide verity of beliefs as do Baptist churches in general.

Probably more likely is a prosperity gospel with aspects of social gospel.

I have never experienced a black pastor deny the deity or resurrection of Jesus, but I have only heard a few.

peace to you

 

[JonC]

I suspect, but have no widespread experience on the topic, that majority black churches have a wide verity of beliefs as do Baptist churches in general.

Probably more likely is a prosperity gospel with aspects of social gospel.

I have never experienced a black pastor deny the deity or resurrection of Jesus, but I have only heard a few.

peace to you

I have a friend who is a Black preacher and I would never imagine him denying Christ.

It is disheartening to read MLK's theological writings and sermons. He was a remarkable person, nonetheless.

Many of his writings can be referenced here:

The Martin Luther King, Jr., Research and Education Institute

 

[Reynolds]

I have a friend who is a Black preacher and I would never imagine him denying Christ.

It is disheartening to read MLK's theological writings and sermons. He was a remarkable person, nonetheless.

Many of his writings can be referenced here:

The Martin Luther King, Jr., Research and Education Institute

Remarkable person?
Communist.
Frequently used adult prostitutes.
On occasion used underage prostitutes.
Drank.
Smoked.
Sounds like a great man to me.

 

[JonC]

Remarkable person?
Communist.
Frequently used adult prostitutes.
On occasion used underage prostitutes.
Drank.
Smoked.
Sounds like a great man to me.

Yes. Remarkable in his contributions and in his failings.

My question is how someone like MLK ends up a Baptist pastor given he was not a Christian and if this was also a sign of a problem with churches.

 

[Reynolds]

Yes. Remarkable in his contributions and in his failings.

My question is how someone like MLK ends up a Baptist pastor given he was not a Christian and if this was also a sign of a problem with churches.

It still is. We have some major character problems with many SBC pastor's today.

 

[JonC]

I do not know where MLK ended up in his faith. I know many if his writings reflect the heart of a non-Christian. But many were early writings.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Rather intriguing this. MLKJ was an excellent orator and famed civil rights leader, but a casual search brings up articles wherein he is also noted as a whoremonger, a plagiarist, a heretic, a Marxist. The first and last were old news, but the other two are new to me.

 

[JonC]

Rather intriguing this. MLKJ was an excellent orator and famed civil rights leader, but a casual search brings up articles wherein he is also noted as a whoremonger, a plagiarist, a heretic, a Marxist. The first and last were old news, but the other two are new to me.

I don't know how much I buy the Marxist charges. I knew he was a womanizer.

What we have of his religious views places him outside of the Christian faith, but most were from his time at Crozer and a few sermons at Dexter. He was pastor for a short time at one church and his contributions were mainly as a Civil Rights activist.

If he came to refute his writings I do not know. I would love to see that he repented of his infidelity to Coretta and accepted the faith. I just fo not know.

But I do know he was not a Christian when considered a church leader.

I don't mean this thread to be degrading MLK. Men are fallible. A.W. Tozer is one of my favorite preachers, but as a family man goes he was a failure. We should be able to recognize contributions without idolizing men.

It just amazes me that we consider men like MLK to be Christian when they testify to the contrary. We seem to want to claim people....an actor "converts" and they become our heros of the day.

 

[Reynolds]

I don't know how much I buy the Marxist charges. I knew he was a womanizer.

What we have of his religious views places him outside of the Christian faith, but most were from his time at Crozer and a few sermons at Dexter. He was pastor for a short time at one church and his contributions were mainly as a Civil Rights activist.

If he came to refute his writings I do not know. I would love to see that he repented of his infidelity to Coretta and accepted the faith. I just fo not know.

But I do know he was not a Christian when considered a church leader.

I don't mean this thread to be degrading MLK. Men are fallible. A.W. Tozer is one of my favorite preachers, but as a family man goes he was a failure. We should be able to recognize contributions without idolizing men.

It just amazes me that we consider men like MLK to be Christian when they testify to the contrary. We seem to want to claim people....an actor "converts" and they become our heros of the day.

Communist ties were obvious. One of the reasons his FBI file is still sealed.

 

[JonC]

Communist ties were obvious. One of the reasons his FBI file is still sealed.

That does not make sense to me. His communist ties were obvious, and that is one reason the FBI file is still sealed?

Doesn't matter, I guess. MLK was before my time....and I'm a Roger Waters fan (saw his concert in Nashville a few years ago). I'm pretty sure Waters has at least some communistic tendencies. They had a whole stage of kids wearing "Resist" t-shirts singing "we don't need no education"....which was a dead giveaway.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

...My question is whether or not these influences are in traditional Black churches in America. I am asking (I do not know). Are Black churches more prone to replace the gospel of Jesus Christ with a social gospel?

After a little searching, I'm wondering if we may be getting the cart before the horse here. The following summary and assessment may be fair, but corrections are welcome.

MLKJ attended Crozer Theological Seminary, where he wrote papers now cited as heretical. This seminary was not black but evidently liberal. Professor Davis, who graded the papers, was white. The material King used for his papers was at least partially based on the work of other professors. There is no reason to attach any racial slant to the information in King's papers. He seems to be following suit with the slant of the seminary.

The Crozer Theological Seminary was a multi-denominational religious institution located in Upland, Pennsylvania. The school succeeded a Normal School established at the site in 1858 by the wealthy textile manufacturer John Price Crozer.[2] The Old Main building was used as a hospital during the American Civil War. The seminary served as an American Baptist Church school, training seminarians for entry into the Baptist ministry from 1869 to 1970.​

 

[JonC]

After a little searching, I'm wondering if we may be getting the cart before the horse here. The following summary and assessment may be fair, but corrections are welcome.

MLKJ attended Crozer Theological Seminary, where he wrote papers now cited as heretical. This seminary was not black but evidently liberal. Professor Davis, who graded the papers, was white. The material King used for his papers was at least partially based on the work of other professors. There is no reason to attach any racial slant to the information in King's papers. He seems to be following suit with the slant of the seminary.

The Crozer Theological Seminary was a multi-denominational religious institution located in Upland, Pennsylvania. The school succeeded a Normal School established at the site in 1858 by the wealthy textile manufacturer John Price Crozer.[2] The Old Main building was used as a hospital during the American Civil War. The seminary served as an American Baptist Church school, training seminarians for entry into the Baptist ministry from 1869 to 1970.​

I agree. I do not see a racial slant in those writings, but they do suggest not only an awareness of social injustice but also a need for resolution.

I agree with MLK when it comes to issues of race.

His writings, however, call into question his Christianity. Even later, in an Easter sermon preached at Dexter. MLK calls into question the idea of a bodily resurrection and eternal life (refering to it as an amalgamation of Hebrew and Greek concepts).

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

I agree. I do not see a racial slant in those writings, but they do suggest not only an awareness of social injustice but also a need for resolution.

I agree with MLK when it comes to issues of race.

His writings, however, call into question his Christianity. Even later, in an Easter sermon preached at Dexter. MLK calls into question the idea of a bodily resurrection and eternal life (refering to it as an amalgamation of Hebrew and Greek concepts).

Yes, my point is that it appears to be much more widespread, via the seminary or even the denomination. These ideas do not appear to be unique to King, but rather what they were teaching him.

 

[JonC]

Yes, my point is that it appears to be much more widespread, via the seminary or even the denomination. These ideas do not appear to be unique to King, but rather what they were teaching him.

Thomas Jefferson had a very similar understanding. He rejected the supernatural aspects of the Bible but took to heart the moral implications.

When we read MLK's sermons realizing his beliefs they are, in a way, more profound towards his work. He focused his message on doing the right thing without knowing the consequences (he believed Christ was unaware of the cross until His arrest was imminent, and when He saw what was to come He was not disuaded but remained obedient to God).

 

[Marooncat79]

Because of a recent inquiry (brought on by a comment here) I’ve been reading The Papers of Martin Luther King Jr. (on Stanford University’s The Martin Luther King Jr. Research and Education Institute).

I want to start off by saying that my comments in no way disparage his contributions in the Civil Right’s Movement. This is another topic entirely.

Martin Luther King pastored one church (from 1954 to 1960), the Dexter Avenue King Memorial Baptist Church in Montgomery AL. He is often (where I live, anyway) associated with Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta GA (where I understand he was ordained).

I had always assumed, therefore, that Martin Luther King Jr. was Christian. But it is very apparent I was wrong.

Martin Luther King Jr. did not believe that Christ was divine – except in his submission to God. MLK did not believe that Christ was “the Word made flesh” or like God in any supernatural sense. He did not believe Christ was born of a virgin. Instead He believed that Jesus was “divine” in that he stood “in unity with God and man”. Jesus “became a true son of man by becoming a true son of God….[he]completely opened his life to the influence of the divine spirit.”

He did not believe that there will be a “Seconding coming” of Christ (physically) but instead that every time we “turn our hearts to the highest and the best there is for us the Christ”.

He did not believe in “a day of Judgment” where Christ will judge but rather a judgment whereby we can measure ourselves by the standards of Christ.

Martin Luther King Jr. did not believe in the resurrection of Christ. Instead he saw this as a myth that arose out of the early church who were ”captivated by the magnetic power of [Jesus’] personality.” Which led to “the faith that he [Jesus] could never die”. The “resurrection” is merely an outward expression of the inner experience. “The people saw within Jesus such a uniqueness of quality and spirit that to explain him in terms of ordinary background was to them quite inadequate”. They could only account for Jesus “in terms of biological uniqueness”. MLK contends they were not being “unscientific in their approach because they had no knowledge of the scientific.”. The “myth” of orthodox Christianity (Jesus being born of a virgin, Jesus being God, Jesus rising from the dead, Jesus coming again physically) are all expressions of “true Christianity” poorly expressed by today’s standards but adequate to the early church.


We know that Martin Luther King Jr. (like Thomas Jefferson) looked to the Bible and Christianity as essential - BUT not as Christians. They followed Jesus not as the Son of God but as a moral teacher (they did not believe in the supernatural aspects of Christianity). I would argue that MLK was closer to Christianity than Jefferson....but closeness does not a Christian make.


My question is whether or not these influences are in traditional Black churches in America. I am asking (I do not know). Are Black churches more prone to replace the gospel of Jesus Christ with a social gospel?

Yes. Very much so in many denominations ie mainline denominations as well as the Liberal Disciples of Christ.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Thomas Jefferson had a very similar understanding. He rejected the supernatural aspects of the Bible but took to heart the moral implications.

When we read MLK's sermons realizing his beliefs they are, in a way, more profound towards his work. He focused his message on doing the right thing without knowing the consequences (he believed Christ was unaware of the cross until His arrest was imminent, and when He saw what was to come He was not disuaded but remained obedient to God).

Here's another opinion taken from a response (see Was Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. a Christian?) that might be worth considering, especially by one with your own political outlook.

Your article on Martin Luther King Jr. was very enlightening. I have a friend here at work who was doubting the man that many of his friends follow, and he asked me to do some research. I am not taking your word for it from the web, I read some of the articles at Stanford.edu and that proved well, his disbelief. Many preachers would not join up with him and they were made fun of, verbally abused and called cowards. For non-violence, they sure strong armed people to join their movement, oh but if they had of convinced people to join the Lords Army, what a difference they could have made. Black America (I use that term as a whole) would be different if those people had of gotten saved and not marched because they wanted rights. There wouldn't be the drug problems, the alcohol and the precious bastard children cursing the day they were born. White America would be a different place had MLK spread a Gospel message through America, many would have hated him even more, but many would have been saved if he had of preached the Gospel. What a shame, what a waste.​

 

[Marooncat79]

MLK

Denied miracles ie resurrection and Virgin Birth

Described his “conversion” as - this is pretty close- I never felt anything, it was no big deal to me. There was a time when others were surrendering themselves to baptism and I decided that I would do the same..., so I was baptized

 

[JonC]

Here's another opinion taken from a response (see Was Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. a Christian?) that might be worth considering, especially by one with your own political outlook.

Your article on Martin Luther King Jr. was very enlightening. I have a friend here at work who was doubting the man that many of his friends follow, and he asked me to do some research. I am not taking your word for it from the web, I read some of the articles at Stanford.edu and that proved well, his disbelief. Many preachers would not join up with him and they were made fun of, verbally abused and called cowards. For non-violence, they sure strong armed people to join their movement, oh but if they had of convinced people to join the Lords Army, what a difference they could have made. Black America (I use that term as a whole) would be different if those people had of gotten saved and not marched because they wanted rights. There wouldn't be the drug problems, the alcohol and the precious bastard children cursing the day they were born. White America would be a different place had MLK spread a Gospel message through America, many would have hated him even more, but many would have been saved if he had of preached the Gospel. What a shame, what a waste.​

I agree with the article. MLK was gifted. Imagine if he were a Christian. His life would have been different, but perhaps he would have done so much more than awakening America to social injustices.

 

[rlvaughn]

My question is whether or not these influences are in traditional Black churches in America. I am asking (I do not know). Are Black churches more prone to replace the gospel of Jesus Christ with a social gospel?

The black Baptist churches I am most familiar with are conservative Bible-believing churches, yet they seem to have a respect for Martin Luther King. In one country church I visited they had some funeral home fans with his picture on them. I suspect some of that respect may just be respect for things they think he did that benefited black Americans in general, and maybe some also that they are not really aware of the particulars of his belief system.

On the other hand, in studying the black Baptist conventions, I am aware that the social issues had the influence, at least on one occasion, of splitting the National Baptist Convention. In the early 60s there was division over the tactics used by groups such as Southern Christian Leadership Conference and the Congress of Racial Equality (CORE) -- which Martin Luther King supported. The President of the NBC, J. H. Jackson, opposed the tactics and denounced them. Long story short, a group split off the NBC and started the Progressive National Baptist Convention in fall 1961.