1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Mary, Joseph & Jesus

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Kathy, Jan 5, 2002.

Top Posters
  1. Kathy

    Kathy New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    1,541
    Likes Received:
    0
    I know that Christmas is over, but I was wondering about this...did Mary come from the house of David, thus Jesus was begat of the house of David, because Jesus was of Mary and not of Joseph in any way at all...is it literal or because Joseph "posed" as the father of Jesus make him of the house of David?

    Kathy
    <><

    Here's the scripture reference:

     
    #1 Kathy, Jan 5, 2002
  2. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2001
    Messages:
    2,568
    Likes Received:
    0
    Kathy,

    The Matthew genealogy traces Joseph's ancestry. Notice that Solomon, the son of David is Joseph's branch. Luke 3:23-38 traces Mary's ancestry. Matthew traces forward in time while Luke's goes backward in time. You really have to make your own tree for each one.

    Many claim the two genealogies are meant to both be Joseph's. I disagree and here's why. Except for them both containing Shealtiel fathering Zerubbabel, they differ vastly. What is the explanation for these somewhat uncommon names in both? I don't know. But they both converge at David, and Matthews lineage comes from David's son Solomon, and Luke's lineage comes from David's son Nathan. That there tells me they are two distinct lineages.

    Now to answer your question! If Matthew and Luke's genealogies are as I have concluded above, both Joseph and Mary's ancestry traces back to David, i.e. David was both Joseph and Mary's great, great ... grandfather! ;)

    God bless and hope you had a wonderful Christmas and New Year!
    John
     
    #2 John Wells, Jan 5, 2002
  3. Pete Richert

    Pete Richert New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2001
    Messages:
    1,283
    Likes Received:
    0
    So Heli was Joseph's father in law?
     
    #3 Pete Richert, Jan 5, 2002
  4. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2001
    Messages:
    2,568
    Likes Received:
    0
    Pete,

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Luke’s genealogy moves backward, from Jesus to Adam; Matthew’s moves forward, from Abraham to Joseph. Luke’s entire section from Joseph to David differs starkly from that given by Matthew. The two genealogies are easily reconciled if Luke’s is seen as Mary’s genealogy, and Matthew’s version represents Joseph’s. Thus the royal line is passed through Jesus’ legal father, and His physical descent from David is established by Mary’s lineage. Luke, unlike Matthew, includes no women in his genealogy—even Mary herself. Joseph was “the son of Heli” by marriage (Heli having no sons of his own)-- MacArthur, J. (1997, c1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (Electronic ed.) (Lk 3:23). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    John

    [ January 06, 2002: Message edited by: John Wells ]
     
    #4 John Wells, Jan 6, 2002
  5. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    30,406
    Likes Received:
    557
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Luke 3 Genealogy of Jesus goes
    Adam
    Abraham
    David
    David's son NATHAN
    Mary

    Matthew 1 Genealogy of Jesus goes
    Adam
    Abraham
    David
    David's son SOLOMON
    Joseph

    Both Joseph and Mary were descended physically from TWO BRANCHES of David's family.

    Joseph's line is the LEGAL descent, but thru it the king could not come. (Somebody help me here - there is a law/rule broken or prophecy or some such that would preclude Jesus being tied physically to Joseph's line, but I can't make my tired ol brain work.)

    Mary's is the actual physical tie to David that Jesus had.
     
    #5 Dr. Bob, Jan 6, 2002
  6. ventin

    ventin New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2001
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    0
    from my understanding, Joseph and Mary are cousins when we traced their genealogy back to David.
     
    #6 ventin, Jan 6, 2002
  7. Kathy

    Kathy New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    1,541
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you! This is all so interesting to me...as it should be I suppose! LoL

    My old Pastor did a sermon entitled "The Virgin Birth" and he described the state of the fetus within the mother. From several medical journals he showed how no blood is passed from the mother to the fetus at any time. It's UNBELIEVEABLE and awesome! Not a single drop of mortal blood tainted our Savior, and God made sure of it. Had Joseph LITERALLY inpregnated Mary, well, you know...He would not have been the Messiah because just as sin entered into one man...

    PRAISE THE LORD FOR HIS GOODNESS AND MERCY AND MOST OF ALL HIS GRACE!

    Kathy
    &lt;&gt;&lt;
     
    #7 Kathy, Jan 6, 2002
  8. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    2,841
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oh no, Kathy - don't you understand? :confused:

    The two geneologies are not the same so they are erroneous - they are a result of later redaction and editing. Even though Luke and Matthew were contemporaries, they just were not smart enough to put their heads together and come up with one story about the lineage of Jesus; it was an editing error that wasn't supposed to make the published edition. :eek:

    Its like the JEDP theory of the OT: But this one's called the D.O.P.E. theory. :cool: [​IMG] :D :eek: [​IMG]
     
    #8 Chris Temple, Jan 6, 2002
  9. Kathy

    Kathy New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    1,541
    Likes Received:
    0
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Temple:
    Oh no, Kathy - don't you understand? :confused:

    The two geneologies are not the same so they are erroneous - they are a result of later redaction and editing. Even though Luke and Matthew were contemporaries, they just were not smart enough to put their heads together and come up with one story about the lineage of Jesus; it was an editing error that wasn't supposed to make the published edition. :eek:

    Its like the JEDP theory of the OT: But this one's called the D.O.P.E. theory. :cool: [​IMG] :D :eek: [​IMG]    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    This got a good giggle out of me! LoL

    Kathy
    &lt;&gt;&lt;
     
    #9 Kathy, Jan 6, 2002
  10. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    30,406
    Likes Received:
    557
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Nice shot at the liberal end of our BB membership! Had to read thru it twice to be sure I got the humor. :eek: :eek: :eek:

    D.O.P.E. theory actually SOUNDS like something that they could teach! :D :D :D
     
    #10 Dr. Bob, Jan 7, 2002
  11. ventin

    ventin New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2001
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    0
    pardon, what does this JEPD theory stand for and DOPE theory? :confused:
     
    #11 ventin, Jan 7, 2002
  12. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    30,406
    Likes Received:
    557
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Higher critics (who simply do not believe what the Bible says could POSSIBLY be true) have tried to divided the Penteteuch (Genesis-Deuteronomy) into different writers from different times.

    Now God says Moses wrote it, but they say passages with:
    J-Jehovah were written by one
    E-Elohim (another name of God) written by someone else
    D-Deuteronomy written by another
    P-Priestly additions from Ezra et al

    Hence, shortcut is JEDP Theory.

    And DOPE means DOPE! (as in s*t*u*p*i*d, not the drug)
     
    #12 Dr. Bob, Jan 8, 2002
  13. DocCas

    DocCas New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    4,103
    Likes Received:
    1
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
    (Somebody help me here - there is a law/rule broken or prophecy or some such that would preclude Jesus being tied physically to Joseph's line, but I can't make my tired ol brain work.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Jeremiah 22:30. [​IMG]
     
    #13 DocCas, Jan 8, 2002
  14. Pete Richert

    Pete Richert New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2001
    Messages:
    1,283
    Likes Received:
    0
    Where does God say Moses wrote the first five books?
     
    #14 Pete Richert, Jan 8, 2002
  15. DocCas

    DocCas New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    4,103
    Likes Received:
    1
    #15 DocCas, Jan 8, 2002
  16. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2001
    Messages:
    2,859
    Likes Received:
    0
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Temple:
    Oh no, Kathy - don't you understand? :confused:

    The two geneologies are not the same so they are erroneous - they are a result of later redaction and editing. Even though Luke and Matthew were contemporaries, they just were not smart enough to put their heads together and come up with one story about the lineage of Jesus; it was an editing error that wasn't supposed to make the published edition. :eek:

    Its like the JEDP theory of the OT: But this one's called the D.O.P.E. theory. :cool: [​IMG] :D :eek: [​IMG]    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    *sigh* The funny thing is that I've seen similar discussions of the 2 genealogies on the liberal side of the house and watched while someome made a similar post to this ridiculing the inerrantist take on these genealogies. What goes around comes around.
    :D
     
    #16 Rev. Joshua, Jan 8, 2002
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Loading...