Mathew 3:11

[Judith]

In Mat. 3:11 we read.
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
My question is what is the meaning of the "fire" Is it the judgement side for those who do not repent or is it the refining side for those who do or some other meaning? Your thoughts.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I was forced to consider this as a new Christian about 30 years ago, when charismatics started invading my then church and saying that it was not enough to be baptized with the Holy Sprit; you needed a second blessing, the 'fire,' as well.
I prayerfully considered this and it seemed, and still seems to me, that in the context of v.12, the fire being talked of is hell fire.

 

[Scarlett O.]

In Mat. 3:11 we read.
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
My question is what is the meaning of the "fire" Is it the judgement side for those who do not repent or is it the refining side for those who do or some other meaning? Your thoughts.

Since it is coupled with the Holy Spirit - I take it to mean a refining or purification. Thayer's/Strong's says the Greek word can be used literally or figuratively. And Strong's says it may have come from the Sanskrit word meaning purification.

John's baptism was for repentance, not salvation. A mortal human could repent. But God alone does the saving, the imparting of the Holy Spirit, and the refining.

So John's baptism and believer's baptism was/is different.

 

[37818]

I agree with @Martin Marprelate
Matthew 3:11-12, . . . and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Luke 3:16-17, . . . and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

 

[37818]

So John's baptism and believer's baptism was/is different.

No. The Apostle Paul explained, Acts of the Apostles 19:4, Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

 

[kyredneck]

In Mat. 3:11 we read.
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
My question is what is the meaning of the "fire" Is it the judgement side for those who do not repent or is it the refining side for those who do or some other meaning? Your thoughts.

The Prophet is speaking to/of corporate Israel. This baptism of the spirit began at Pentecost. The baptism of fire was the tribulation that came upon 'that generation' on whom all the blood shed on the land came upon (Matthew 23:33-36), "even now the axe lieth at the root of the trees" - 1 Thessalonians 2:15-16.

Fire in this context (and many others) is not 'hell' or the lake of fire, it's a metaphor.

 

[Scarlett O.]

No. The Apostle Paul explained, Acts of the Apostles 19:4, Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Read the next verse. Those same people were baptized in the name of Jesus, then hands were laid on them, and then they received the Holy Spirit.

Two baptisms.

 

[37818]

Read the next verse. Those same people were baptized in the name of Jesus, then hands were laid on them, and then they received the Holy Spirit.

Two baptisms.

Not at issue. Water and the Spirit.

That water baptism is to be believer's baptism is the issue.

 

[Judith]

While my understanding is not set in stone I do think that the fire part is a judgment fire. The reason is that John is rebuking/warning the Pharisees to be sure that they are first repenting. I can understand how this could also be seen as a purifying fire of the saved. It seems that scholars are divided on this.

 

[canadyjd]

IMO, baptism by fire refers to persecution that comes with a profession of faith in Jesus.

Jesus s often speaks of the persecution of His followers.

Peace to you

 

[kyredneck]

IMO, baptism by fire refers to persecution that comes with a profession of faith in Jesus.

IMO, no, it does not refer to this.

 

[canadyjd]

Oh no, @kyredneck, surely we haven’t discovered something we disagree about, have we?

Peace to you

 

[GodisgraciousR325]

I agree that its about hell.