Matt 10:28 does God really "destroy BOTH" Body AND soul in fiery hell??

[BobRyan]

Matt 22:23-34 Christ insists that God is not the God of the dead.

Praise to God - ceases at death
Ps 115:17 the dead do not praise the Lord, nor do any who go down into silence;
18 [b]but as for us, we will bless[/b] the lord from this time forth and forever. Praise the lord!
Ps30:9 yet clearly when the living worship we "worship in spirit" John 4:24 -

No thanks or praise to God given by those that are dead.
Is 38:18 “for sheol cannot thank you, death cannot praise you; those who go down to the pit cannot hopefor your faithfulness.
19 “it is the living who give thanks to you, as I do today;

No memory of God
Ps 6:5for there is no mention of you in death; in sheol who will give you thanks?

No thought activity
Ps 146:2 I will sing praises to my God while I have my being.
3 do not trust in princes, in mortal man, in whom there is no salvation.
4 his spirit departs, he returns to the earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
5 how blessed is he whose help is the God of Jacob,
Ecclesiasties 9:5-6 they have no activity


Ps 143
3Do not trust in princes,
In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation.
4His spirit departs, he returns to the earth;
In that very day his thoughts perish.


Isaiah 38
18"For Sheol cannot thank You,
Death cannot praise You;
Those who go down to the pit cannot hope for Your faithfulness.
19"It is the living who give thanks to You, as I do today;
A father tells his sons about Your faithfulness.


As always the efforts to spin these texts around by those who do not accept the immediate and natural meaning of the texts -- are stunning!

Have you bothered looking up the word perish in the versie you quoted from. Psalm146?

All it means is that the thoughts wander away, not that they die as you would imply.

It is going to take a considerable amount of "creativitiy" to spin the texts above into "thoughts that wander away but DO NOT cease".

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Note that in Matt 10 when Christ contrasts the first death with the second death the same concept of Kill and “Destroy” that he applied in the real world (first death) really being killed by real wicked people is applied to BOTH the body and the soul in hell fire in Christ’s warning regarding the 2nd death. .(In Matt 25:41 we are told that the everlasting fire of the 2nd death is “prepared for the devil and his angels” – and we see that very thing happening in Rev 20 where the devil is cast alive into eternal fire).

Matt 10
28 ""Do not fear [b]those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.[/b]

Christ argues that we should not fear first death scenarios – but rather second death. Do now fear what wicked men plan to do regarding the first death – and in fact DO – to the saints. “Kill the body” since in those things they are not able to “kill” the soul. Rather fear what God plans to do – and in fact WILL do in the fiery hell to come – to “destroy BOTH body AND soul” IN fiery hell -- doing that which sinful men CAN NOT do to their fellow man. He does not merely say – “fear Him who could choose to destroy BOTH body and soul if he should ever be inclined to do such a thing” – rather He states it in the affirmative saying WHERE and when he will do it “IN fiery hell”

Jude
7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal (everlasting) fire.

2 Peter 2:6
and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;

They are “destroyed” – reduced to ashes by that “eternal fire” from God. Just as God said that “BOTH body AND soul are DESTROYED” in fiery hell Matt 10:28 – so we see that the everlasting fire – the eternal fire of Jude “destroyed” the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Don’t miss the fact that eternal fire is explicitly said to have already fallen on earth. We have a clear and literal example of eternal fire in history according to the Word of God.

This is the same “everlasting fire” that we see Christ speaking of in Matt 25
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

But the man-made traditions of some Christian groups today would this Bible truth and spin it very far from where we find it in scripture

 

[BobRyan]

Bob's method of stringing together unrelated passages of Scripture
.

Were you ever able to defend that wild claim that the topic of "what ceases at death" is NOT the common thread that runs through all of these texts??

Matt 22:23-34 Christ insists that God is not the God of the dead.

Praise to God - ceases at death
Ps 115:17 the dead do not praise the Lord, nor do any who go down into silence;
18 [b]but as for us, we will bless[/b] the lord from this time forth and forever. Praise the lord!
Ps30:9 yet clearly when the living worship we "worship in spirit" John 4:24 -

No thanks or praise to God given by those that are dead.
Is 38:18 “for sheol cannot thank you, death cannot praise you; those who go down to the pit cannot hopefor your faithfulness.
19 “it is the living who give thanks to you, as I do today;

No memory of God
Ps 6:5for there is no mention of you in death; in sheol who will give you thanks?

No thought activity
Ps 146:2 I will sing praises to my God while I have my being.
3 do not trust in princes, in mortal man, in whom there is no salvation.
4 his spirit departs, he returns to the earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
5 how blessed is he whose help is the God of Jacob,
Ecclesiasties 9:5-6 they have no activity


Ps 143
3Do not trust in princes,
In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation.
4His spirit departs, he returns to the earth;
In that very day his thoughts perish.


Isaiah 38
18"For Sheol cannot thank You,
Death cannot praise You;
Those who go down to the pit cannot hope for Your faithfulness.
19"It is the living who give thanks to You, as I do today;
A father tells his sons about Your faithfulness.



If you ever did find support for your wild claim that these texts are NOT all speaking of the contrast between the living and the dead - and what ceases at death - you might want to go right ahead and post support for it on this thread.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Matt 10
28 ""Do not fear [b]those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.[/b][/quote]

Luke 12
4 ""I say to you, My friends, [b]do not be afraid of those who kill the body[/b] and after that have no more that they can do.
5 ""But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell[/b]; yes, I tell you, fear Him!

Notice that Christ connects TWO well accepted facts for the Sadducees to PROVE the resurreciton -

#1. That God is NOT the God of the dead -
#2. That at the time God speaks to Moses - Abraham IS dead - yet God says "I am the God of Abraham" when speaking to Moses.

Christ argues that these TWO facts SHOW that there HAS to be a resurrection for it is the only way for both statements to be true.

Others deny his claim - but not me.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

Were you ever able to defend that wild claim that the topic of "what ceases at death" is NOT the common thread that runs through all of these texts??

Matt 22:23-34 Christ insists that God is not the God of the dead.

Praise to God - ceases at death
Ps 115:17 the dead do not praise the Lord, nor do any who go down into silence;
18 [b]but as for us, we will bless[/b] the lord from this time forth and forever. Praise the lord!
Ps30:9 yet clearly when the living worship we "worship in spirit" John 4:24 -

No thanks or praise to God given by those that are dead.
Is 38:18 “for sheol cannot thank you, death cannot praise you; those who go down to the pit cannot hopefor your faithfulness.
19 “it is the living who give thanks to you, as I do today;

No memory of God
Ps 6:5for there is no mention of you in death; in sheol who will give you thanks?

No thought activity
Ps 146:2 I will sing praises to my God while I have my being.
3 do not trust in princes, in mortal man, in whom there is no salvation.
4 his spirit departs, he returns to the earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
5 how blessed is he whose help is the God of Jacob,
Ecclesiasties 9:5-6 they have no activity


Ps 143
3Do not trust in princes,
In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation.
4His spirit departs, he returns to the earth;
In that very day his thoughts perish.


Isaiah 38
18"For Sheol cannot thank You,
Death cannot praise You;
Those who go down to the pit cannot hope for Your faithfulness.
19"It is the living who give thanks to You, as I do today;
A father tells his sons about Your faithfulness.



If you ever did find support for your wild claim that these texts are NOT all speaking of the contrast between the living and the dead - and what ceases at death - you might want to go right ahead and post support for it on this thread.

In Christ,

Bob

Bob, if you keep posting the same verses, post after post, (like the above), when I have already replied to these same verses more than once, then I will just have to start deleting them. If you want answers go back to the pages where I have acceptably answered and explained them for you. Otherwise I will begin to delete them. You have gone from the sublime to the ridiculous.

 

[BobRyan]

DHK - you have resorted to a lot of interesting and yes even entertaining methods for ignoring these points raised - I suppose that latest post of yours is simply "to be expected".

I have a suggestion - why not deal with the points raised "instead"?

Be honest for a second - can you think of a single substantive point that you have made that was actually shown to hold water in this entire thread?? I mean "even one"????

Surely that has to be embarrassing sir.

I was reviewing it recently - and I could not find even one in your behalf - other than these little games for ways to dodge and sidestep. (Hint - attacking the SDA denomination in general or slinging terms around like "cult", or merely CLAIMING that texts speaking about what ceases at death are not all SEEN to be talking about the same point - really don't address the points raised - )

Certainly Andre found your lack of substantive response to be reason enough to stop posting the same unnanswered points -

HBSMN - came up with "one" but not with the points I raised. He came up with a substantive response in terms of Luke 16 showing that "there exists" believers in the immortal soul that do not agree with the "parable" label for the parable of Luke 16. That those people "exist" is a fact that "remains true" - it is not just him "spinning a preference AS IF it was contained in scripture".

But you on the other hand - have resorted to dodge after dodge - debunked gimmick after gimmick to side step each point raised on this page.

The REASON I keep posting the same unnanswered points is that they are "unnanswered" by anything that holds water. I KEEP calling the objective reader to "observe" what you have done in your posts that either "directly contradict" the texts posted or simply "eisegete a preference INTO the text" using language NOT IN the texts at aLL!

Clearly you would want to find a way to avoid being exposed like that - post after post after post. I can understand that.

If the best you can do is delelet these posts that you can not seem to answer subjstantively - well so be it sir.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

DHK - the fact that you ran out of substantive answers to the "hard questions" raised in the text lists given above - is not news for human nature. Everyone has a subject like that where they just don't have a strong Biblically sound position from which to address the really hard questions.

What is interesting is that at this link on this message board -- Ed Edwards addresses that problem in human nature.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1000256&postcount=3

Might want to check that out sir.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Dustin]

I don't understand why this thread has gone on this long.

The issue of whether the reprobate are eternally tortured in Hell or are annhilated is a moot point , IMO. You guys are just arguing over what happens to the reprobate. To what end I ask? So one of you at the end of this thread can claim they are right and the other wrong? I really don't get it.

Now if it was about the Gospel, I would completely understand the fuss, but going back and forth about SDA dogma is utterly pointless. If you want my real opinion, one does not need an opinion about if the pains of Hell are eternal or not to show themselves regenerate. It's not an essenstial issue. Some issues we can agree to disagree on, and I believe this is one.

Stop wasting bandwidth by feeding hungry ego's.


Soli Deo Gloria,
Dustin

P.S. No offense to anyone in particular, I'm just amazed at how ridiculous things can get. It's almost as pointless as the Mets blog.