Matt 7:21-23 & Lukewarm Christians

[evangelist6589]

I am preparing my message for tonight on false converts. I have listened to a Ray Comfort message on this topic as I am reading one of his books where he uses the word false converts probably more than 20 times throughout the entire book. I have also read a Erwin Lutzer book on the judgment seat of Christ.

The people in this passage are false as well as are Lukewarm Christians. However there are many that are disobedient such as Aninias & Saphira, Saul, Solomon, among others. Comfort may refer to these people as false converts, but how does he know who is saved and who is not?

1 Corinthians 6:9 (NIV)
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

Inheriting and entering are not the same thing according to Erwin Lutzer. He argues in his book that many that we would call false converts are truly believers whom are just disobedient. Perhaps he is correct but I do not know. Salvation is not by works (Eph 2:8-10) but if all of us had to be perfect then none of us would make it to heaven. Is this what Comfort and others in this Lordship debate arguing for?



John

 

[Greektim]

I am preparing my message for tonight on false converts. I have listened to a Ray Comfort message on this topic as I am reading one of his books where he uses the word false converts probably more than 20 times throughout the entire book. I have also read a Erwin Lutzer book on the judgment seat of Christ.

The people in this passage are false as well as are Lukewarm Christians. However there are many that are disobedient such as Aninias & Saphira, Saul, Solomon, among others. Comfort may refer to these people as false converts, but how does he know who is saved and who is not?

1 Corinthians 6:9 (NIV)
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

Inheriting and entering are not the same thing according to Erwin Lutzer. He argues in his book that many that we would call false converts are truly believers whom are just disobedient. Perhaps he is correct but I do not know. Salvation is not by works (Eph 2:8-10) but if all of us had to be perfect then none of us would make it to heaven. Is this what Comfort and others in this Lordship debate arguing for?



John

I find it interesting how you keep propping up Lutzer and Comfort as if they are authorities on all matters of doctrine and gospel.

Wanna know about the lordship debate??? Read some book about that topic specifically.

 

[evangelist6589]

I find it interesting how you keep propping up Lutzer and Comfort as if they are authorities on all matters of doctrine and gospel.

Wanna know about the lordship debate??? Read some book about that topic specifically.

I find it more interesting that you use David Alan Black, and your reformed dogma as your authority in all matters. You are still using a 16th or whatever century system. Even Calvin himself would probably not be using his system if he were alive today.

 

[evangelist6589]

I find it interesting how you keep propping up Lutzer and Comfort as if they are authorities on all matters of doctrine and gospel.

Wanna know about the lordship debate??? Read some book about that topic specifically.

Soteriology: 5 point Calvinist; supralapsarian
Ecclesiology: reformed SBC; plurality of elders; elder led
Eschatology: Amillennial; partial-preterist

Why would anyone be Amillennial today? Thats a false doctrine that Reformed have made up. They did not get that doctrine from a careful exegesis.

 

[Greektim]

Why would anyone be Amillennial today? Thats a false doctrine that Reformed have made up. They did not get that doctrine from a careful exegesis.

Does pontificating make you feel good about yourself and your fundamentalist pursuit of certainty?

I'm Amill b/c I find it to be most consistent w/ Scripture.

Challenge... name 1 Amill scholar or writer (although according to you "why would anyone be Amillennial today?" many of us are out there)... just name 1. And then, simply ask me if I have read his or her book on Amillennial eschatology. Go for it.

If you have the sand to accuse me of relying all my views on tradition and people "in all matters", then back it up. Otherwise, stop playing like you're a big hitter w/ Lutzer and Comfort. You can't even hit the ball out of the in-field w/ that bat.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Evangelist,
I was just wondering who you are preaching these messages to? You probably preach more than just the messages you mention, but the ones you mention all seem, and I don't know because I am unable to read them or hear them, to be "repent, repent, repent".

I am sure that your preaching is more well rounded than the one theme, but was just wondering to whom you are preaching.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I am preparing my message for tonight on false converts. I have listened to a Ray Comfort message on this topic as I am reading one of his books where he uses the word false converts probably more than 20 times throughout the entire book. I have also read a Erwin Lutzer book on the judgment seat of Christ.

The people in this passage are false as well as are Lukewarm Christians. However there are many that are disobedient such as Aninias & Saphira, Saul, Solomon, among others. Comfort may refer to these people as false converts, but how does he know who is saved and who is not?

The people in Matt 7:21ff are not 'lukewarm;' they are not Christians at all. They are honouring Christ with their lips but denying Him in their lives. 'Depart from Me, you who practise lawlessness.' The way you know who is saved and who isn't is 'by their fruits' (v16). Salvation is by grace through faith, but anyone who is saved will evidence the fact by a changed life. Not a perfect life, but a changed one.

1 Corinthians 6:9 (NIV)
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

Inheriting and entering are not the same thing according to Erwin Lutzer. He argues in his book that many that we would call false converts are truly believers whom are just disobedient. Perhaps he is correct but I do not know.

I do. He's wrong!

Salvation is not by works (Eph 2:8-10) but if all of us had to be perfect then none of us would make it to heaven. Is this what Comfort and others in this Lordship debate arguing for?

We will never be perfect in this life, but if we are born of God, we ought to bear at least some resemblence to our Father. For your next sermon, why not try Acts 26:20 for a text.

Steve
Calvinist and Amillennialist. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

"The people in Matt 7:21ff are not 'lukewarm;' they are not Christians at all. They are honouring Christ with their lips but denying Him in their lives. 'Depart from Me, you who practise lawlessness.' The way you know who is saved and who isn't is 'by their fruits' (v16). Salvation is by grace through faith, but anyone who is saved will evidence the fact by a changed life. Not a perfect life, but a changed one."


Ahhhh yes....music to my eyes & ears! :godisgood:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Why would anyone be Amillennial today? Thats a false doctrine that Reformed have made up. They did not get that doctrine from a careful exegesis.

your attacking his being Amillennial but leaving him be on his next statement.....not even a question about it?!?

Eschatology: Amillennial; partial-preterist

Now Ive seen everything :laugh:

 

[evangelist6589]

Evangelist,
I was just wondering who you are preaching these messages to? You probably preach more than just the messages you mention, but the ones you mention all seem, and I don't know because I am unable to read them or hear them, to be "repent, repent, repent".

I am sure that your preaching is more well rounded than the one theme, but was just wondering to whom you are preaching.

I preach allot of different things in nursing homes and in sunday school when I have been given the opportunity to teach or preach. But on the streets my message would be to repent, because thats an evangelism context.

 

[evangelist6589]

Does pontificating make you feel good about yourself and your fundamentalist pursuit of certainty?

I'm Amill b/c I find it to be most consistent w/ Scripture.

Challenge... name 1 Amill scholar or writer (although according to you "why would anyone be Amillennial today?" many of us are out there)... just name 1. And then, simply ask me if I have read his or her book on Amillennial eschatology. Go for it.

If you have the sand to accuse me of relying all my views on tradition and people "in all matters", then back it up. Otherwise, stop playing like you're a big hitter w/ Lutzer and Comfort. You can't even hit the ball out of the in-field w/ that bat.

Your opinion is yours alone and means very little to me. I believe that Kim Ridicker (http://www.amazon.com/dp/080106435X/?tag=baptis04-20) is one major scholar that I read in seminary. 3 of my teachers teacher rebuffed Calvinism and their view on eschatology and their view of Limited Atonement line by line. This book was a outside reading that many of us did in our papers rebuffing Amillennialism.

This important distinction between a broader and a narrower Israel can be seen in this opening section of Paul’s three-chapter discussion of the future role of Israel. He made a distinction between those who are Jews by birth (biological children of Abraham through the line of Issac and Jacob), and those who are jews by virtue of faith in Christ (children of the promise). Therefore, “true Israel” stands over against ethnic Israel, who, while biological descendents of Abraham, are not true children of Abraham. Paul put it this way in verses 7-8: “Nor because they are his descendents are they all Abraham’s children...It is not the natural children who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring7

I disagree with him. I would encourage the book "A Case for Premillennialism" by Donald K. Campbell instead.