Matt 7's "I never knew you" continued

[OHM]

You are saying here, that one can stop believing in Jesus Christ and still be saved but lose their reward?

Eternal salvation is not about a life-long believing in Jesus as Savior. It's a one-time event in a person's life. So yes I believe there will be people that are eternally saved, because at one point they believed in the Subtitution, but at some point later in life totally refused the "Christian" religion.

But when I talk about stop believing I am meaning stop believing in a present sense, meaning like the children in the wilderness were destroyed because of unbelief. God said the land was theirs for the taking, but they didn't believe Him.

Does that make more sense?

A) Name calling. Have I done this?

B) lying. Have I done this?

Thankfully no you have not done either of these in any of our conversations that I can remember. That's why I don't mind visiting with you.

C) Asking "How much can I get away with"? Have I done this?

This you have, because this is the line of questioning that sparked the last several posts.

If that is my view then how much different is it then your's? And your view is that one can serve two masters and still receive all heaven has to offer only after they spend 1000 years in punishment. Correct! Either way, either view, the Christian gets to serve two masters and still be in heaven in the end. So why even point out there is an "incentive" in your view but not in mine? My view would have an incentive also (rewards).

I guess you could say in theory they may be the same, but a 1,000 years of condemnation is not something that I would want to go through. So yes there is a big difference between our two views. Ever thought about how long a thousand years is to be miserable, wailing and gnashing your teeth.

So in your view you go from paradise on earth to paradise in heaven and all is well and there is never anything negative that comes down your pike. Again I see this as a HUGE difference.

But your doctrine is very popular these days and there is no wonder why.

Like I said, you make a weak argument because your view also allows the Christian to serve two masters and receive all that paradise has to offer only after a 1000 year prison term. I guess your view is more attractive because it would spare one from 1000 years of torture, but even so in the end they get to have all that heaven has to offer.

Well it may be weak in your mind but it is Scripturally very strong. And Scripture says to seek the Kingdom, so it must be worth seeking and it is certainly a better option than a 1,000 years of wailing and gnashing of teeth in outer darkness.

So at WORST I miss out on 70-plus years of pleasure in this life if I am wrong. I can live with that. that's if I live that long and if the Lord doesn't return. So if Scripture really does teach this, and I believe it does, that's not a whole lot to give up in return for being spared a 1000 years and ruling and reigning with the King of kings and the Lord of lords.

(BTW, we are not using the term "heaven" correctly here. Heaven is where all saints go until the ressurrection and then when we come back to earth, earth is where we will stay with Jesus) .

Hey what do you know we actually agree on something .

Are those who have already died and gone to heaven not all enjoying paradise right now? Are those who died with unworthy works happy right now and then when the ressurrection comes up they will go into torment then? If your view is correct I would have to think that you would also have to believe in "soul sleep" unless those "bad" Christians past are enjoying themselves right now or are having a longer prison sentence than 1000 years.

I have thought a lot about these questions and I don't have an answer for you. I'm not sure what has happened and what will happen to those that have died as disobedient, unbelieving and unfaithful.

But again Scripture lays out the ground rules for running the race and so I am more concerned that I die in the right state and then I don't have to worry about what happens to the other side. Those folks should have been more concerned when the time was right .

 

[OHM]

Christ acts not High Priest and Mediator for any but the saved

Exactly. Just as the high priest acted on behalf of the people of Israel (saved people). But we must remember that the high priest was dealing with the sins of the people.

Jesus said if you don't let me wash you (partial washings that the priests went through to enter the Holy place) then we would have no part with Him.

He has to continue to wash us because we continually come in contact with sin.

If we didn't have to deal with sin any longer then there would be no need for I John 1:9.

 

[BobRyan]

Heaven is where Christ takes us at the Rapture (1Thess 4)

And that hapens at the 2nd coming.
"In My Father's house...I GO to prepare a PLACE for you...I will COME AGAIN and RECEIVE you unto Myself THAT WHERE I AM THERE you may be also"

This is the event seen in Matt 24 - and in Rev 19, and in 1Cor 15, and in 2Thess 2, and in 1Thess 4, and the resurrection of Rev 20... it is amazing that ALL the NT writers are pointing to that same singular event ... the appearing of Christ - the FIRST resurrection, our being "caught up in the air" and taken up to heaven -- to the Father's Hous... there to reign with Christ for a literal 1000 years.

Which means the made up stories about "not getting to be there for the 1000 years" are silly when it comes to saints.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Exactly. Just as the high priest acted on behalf of the people of Israel (saved people). But we must remember that the high priest was dealing with the sins of the people.

Jesus said if you don't let me wash you (partial washings that the priests went through to enter the Holy place) then we would have no part with Him.

He has to continue to wash us because we continually come in contact with sin.

If we didn't have to deal with sin any longer then there would be no need for I John 1:9.

That works IF as 1John 2:2 says "Christ is the Atoning sacrifice for our sins" at the cross and IF we accept the truth of Lev 16 regarding the entire process of ATONEMENT as GOD defines it.

But IF we simply IGNORE those texts (and most here do) then your argument above has no place to go.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

Quote: (steaver)..
C) Asking "How much can I get away with"? Have I done this?

(Jump)....This you have, because this is the line of questioning that sparked the last several posts.

No, I have not. I asked for my post that showed that I have. You should not misrepresent what I have asked. I have asked the questions necessary to show the viewer the error in your views. I even know that you cannot answer because the scriptures do not provide the answers needed to support your view. Your view leaves the student without any absolute positive assurance that they will not suffer the wrath of God. (Which btw is totally contradictive to grace and mercy).

(Jump)....So at WORST I miss out on 70-plus years of pleasure in this life if I am wrong. I can live with that. that's if I live that long and if the Lord doesn't return. So if Scripture really does teach this, and I believe it does, that's not a whole lot to give up in return for being spared a 1000 years and ruling and reigning with the King of kings and the Lord of lords.

But brother, I too live for Christ and I believe that scripture does not teach what you say. According to your view, I too will be spared this outer darkness REGARDLESS if I believe the way you do.

I serve out of love, I don't know how I could serve any other way. It just seems to come naturally for me. I have NO desires to live like the unsaved. I have NO motivation for rewards. I just LOVE my Lord! My only desire is to live for Jesus. Maybe this is why I just don't get the "you better do good works or else" doctrines.

If there is anything good that comes out of my deeds each day, then praise Jesus for it is ALL because He lives in me and through me and not because I am some wonderful man! I am just a worm who is blessed to have Christ in me and living through me.

This is why I also do not get doctrines like BobRyan's that say "you better perservere or burn". I have suffered plenty for Christ. I have seen Jesus work things out that seemed impossible to me. I have been in the valleys many, many times and I know I will go there again and again. It is expected. I hate the valleys, but I cannot understand the teaching that you "better perservere" or Jesus is going to curse you to hell. It just makes no sense to someone like myself. I have ABSOLUTELY NO desires in me at all to ever say "get away from me Jesus, I am sick and tired of you".

When you know the truth, the truth shall set you free indeed. And the freedom Jesus gives you is that comfort in knowing that no matter what you are called to go through in Christ, you will stand in Christ in the end!

PRAISE JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbs: :thumbs: ...............(not man)

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[OHM]

No, I have not. I asked for my post that showed that I have. You should not misrepresent what I have asked.

Actually you have. You proved yourself wrong in your opening paragraph, but just so you can see "your" past statements here are some of them.

Will just one unconfessed sin disqualify a believer from the reign with Christ?

Could you please define for us the "rules and boundaries" scripture takes for reigning with Christ? Please include the rules about sin as it pertains to reigning as well. Give scripture please.

There is more in Post #65 that I couldn't copy and paste, because it was on a different page.

There has been no misrepresenting you. You have gone through the whole gamuet and have ended on well where is the line? And you wait like a mountain lion about to pounce on it's pray because you know no one can answer that quesiton. And so you say Ah ha because you can't answer some silly, non-fundamental, meaningless question your entire doctrine must be incorrect.

I even know that you cannot answer because the scriptures do not provide the answers needed to support your view.

So if you know I can't answer the question why ask it? Oh wait I already said why you ask such a meaningless question.

Your view leaves the student without any absolute positive assurance that they will not suffer the wrath of God.

Of course there is no absolute positive assurance, because there is no absolute positive assurance that one is going to continue to believe, continue to produce fruit or endure to the end. However John tells us in his gospel and in his first epistle that we can know that we are on the right track and headed in the right direction.

There is no absolute assurance, becuase there is no absolute guarantee that was is going to continue the process. So your argument is invalid.

But brother, I too live for Christ and I believe that scripture does not teach what you say. According to your view, I too will be spared this outer darkness REGARDLESS if I believe the way you do.

No I don't think you will unfortunately because you are unbelieving concerning God's word on the matter. And for that I believe you will be held accountable. And you are certainly going to be held accountable for those souls that you turned off to the message by taking such a hard stance against it.

I serve out of love, I don't know how I could serve any other way.

That's great. I wish more folks would serve out of love. But are you sure you are "serving" in the right capacity? There are going to be some that stand before the Judge on that day "thinking" they were "serving" in the right manner and they are going to be told they were workers of iniquity.

And before you ask I am still struggling through the question of what is service and what is expected of me. I don't claim to have all the answers . I know part of what is expected is to be growing in the knowledge of the Triune Godhead and I am trying to do that. I know part of serving is telling others about the kingdom. And I'm trying to do that. As for other areas I'm still working through those issues.

I have NO motivation for rewards.

But we are to be motivated toward the kingdom whether positively or with the potential of negativity.

When you know the truth, the truth shall set you free indeed. And the freedom Jesus gives you is that comfort in knowing that no matter what you are called to go through in Christ, you will stand in Christ in the end!

But I don't think you have the entire Truth. I think you are holding on to portions of Truth, but I think you are disagreeing with some other portions of Truth and portions that I think Scripture consider to be very important.

 

[steaver]

(Jump)...Actually you have. You proved yourself wrong in your opening paragraph, but just so you can see "your" past statements here are some of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steaver
Will just one unconfessed sin disqualify a believer from the reign with Christ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steaver
Could you please define for us the "rules and boundaries" scripture takes for reigning with Christ? Please include the rules about sin as it pertains to reigning as well. Give scripture please.

Does Anybody see the question that Jump has claimed I asked in these two post of mine? Here is the question Jump claims I asked....."How much can I get away with"?

If ANYBODY can show me that I have asked "How much can I get away with" PLEASE show me!

(Jump)...There has been no misrepresenting you. You have gone through the whole gamuet and have ended on well where is the line?

Ah, there is what I REALLY asked....."Where is the line"?

(Jump)...So if you know I can't answer the question why ask it? Oh wait I already said why you ask such a meaningless question.

Actually, I already said why I asked the questions I asked...."I have asked the questions necessary to show the viewer the error in your views. I even know that you cannot answer because the scriptures do not provide the answers needed to support your view." (that was in my last post)

(Jump)...Of course there is no absolute positive assurance, because there is no absolute positive assurance that one is going to continue to believe, continue to produce fruit or endure to the end. However John tells us in his gospel and in his first epistle that we can know that we are on the right track and headed in the right direction.

There is no absolute assurance, becuase there is no absolute guarantee that was is going to continue the process. So your argument is invalid.

This very answer of yours validates my argument. You teach something that leaves the student with nothing more than serve Jesus or suffer a 1000 years of torture! Oh, and btw, nobody knows for sure if your works will be accepted. That is not what I see our Lord teaching His children in the scriptures.

(Jump)....No I don't think you will unfortunately because you are unbelieving concerning God's word on the matter. And for that I believe you will be held accountable.

So now even holding a wrong doctrinal pov is going to send one to the torture chamber? How about smoking cigarettes or doing sixty in a 55? How about wearing shorts or KJV only? Spinkling water on the forehead or full submersion? Tithing 10% PLUS a acceptable offering? What is an acceptable offering? No matter what, your pov on this doctrine leaves the student pretty much hopeless!

(Jump)...That's great. I wish more folks would serve out of love. But are you sure you are "serving" in the right capacity? There are going to be some that stand before the Judge on that day "thinking" they were "serving" in the right manner and they are going to be told they were workers of iniquity.

If you are eluding to Matt 7, we already went through that to the end and you said that it is only speaking about those saved that are found without even one worthy work. Now I have lead serveral people to the Lord in the past 33 years that I have been born of God, so Matt 7 does not apply to me. Is there another passage you can quote on the matter?

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[OHM]

Ah, there is what I REALLY asked....."Where is the line"?

And that is the same thing as how much can I get away with. Why would you want to know where the line is if you didn't want to know how much you could get away with. That's just plain silly.

This very answer of yours validates my argument.

In your mind that is probably so. But that doesn't mean your argument is valid. And your argument is terribly invalid. It has NOTHING to do with whether a doctrine is true or not.

I can't believe you actually want to argue that sense a meaningless question that shouldn't even be asked can't be answered that invalidates the entire doctrine. That's just again silly.

You teach something that leaves the student with nothing more than serve Jesus or suffer a 1000 years of torture!

I guess in the simplest form that is correct. But I don't teach it Scripture does!

Oh, and btw, nobody knows for sure if your works will be accepted. That is not what I see our Lord teaching His children in the scriptures.

You "see" a lot of things in Scripture that aren't there, so this is no surprise :laugh:.

So now even holding a wrong doctrinal pov is going to send one to the torture chamber?

Well I'm not sure if it's a torture chamber or not, but the problem with holding a wrong doctrine is not only is the doctrine wrong, but you are going to be held responsible for every person that read your postings bashing Truth and were turned away because of what you said. Surely that makes sense. So it's a lot more than just you yourself holding false doctrine.

How about smoking cigarettes or doing sixty in a 55?

Not sure about cigarettes. Does Scripture say that is a sin? I haven't seen it. However if you are an unrepentant speeder then yes that would be enough. We are to obey the laws of the land unless they tell us to directly violate God's Word.

Speeding is not something that we can get away with. I have a strip of road that I travel quite often that is 20mph and it is silly to have such a low speed limit right through there, but as much as it frustrates me that is to be obeyed. I must die to "self" and drive the speed limit through there. I'm sure it hacks off people behind me and if my wife is driving with me it irritates her, but the law is the law.

I used to not wear my seatbelts either, because I thought it was silly for the government to tell me I have to wear my seatbelt. You get the idea.

How about wearing shorts or KJV only?

I don't see where wearing shorts is prohibited or where one must be a KJV only person.

Spinkling water on the forehead or full submersion?

I think submersion is Biblical.

Tithing 10% PLUS a acceptable offering?

As far as I can see tithing is required in the OT. We are to give with a giving heart as we are led of the Lord.

No matter what, your pov on this doctrine leaves the student pretty much hopeless!

That may be "your" pov, but this doctrine is hardly hopeless. We have the "hope of glory." That's enough hope for me!!!

Now I have lead serveral people to the Lord in the past 33 years that I have been born of God, so Matt 7 does not apply to me.

Well don't you think that casting out demons was equally as "good" as leading someone to the Lord?

 

[BobRyan]

Matt 10:22 butit is he who has endured until the end that will be saved.

Heb 2:1-3
1. For this reason we must pay close attention to what have heard lest we drift away from it

Heb 3:6 but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence
and the boast of our hope firm until the end.

Heb 3:12-14
12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called ""Today,'' so that none of you will be hardened
by the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,


Heb 10:35-39
35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.
36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.
37 FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY.
38 BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND [b]IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM. [/b]
39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

1Cor 15:1-2
1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received,
in which also you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
Rom 11:22
20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness,
if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able tograft them in again.

Col 1:21-23
22 He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death in order to PRESENT you before Him
Holy and Blameless and beyond reproach
23 [b]IF INDEED you CONTINUE in the faith FIRMLY established and STEADFAST and NOT MOVED AWAY[/b]
from the HOPE of the Gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven
and of which I Paul was made a minister.


Rev 2:7,11,17,26 3:5, 12,21 Eternal life to 'he who overcomes'.

Gal 6:7-9 Don't lose heart in doing good for reap et life IF we ..
8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the
Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
9 Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary.

Mark 13:13 Belief + enduring to the END = SAVED
Matthew 24:13 ""But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved."

Matthew 10:22 "You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one
who has endured to the end who will be saved."

2Peter 1:10-11
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true
knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; [b]for as long as
you practice these things, you will never stumble;[/b]
11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.
[/quote]


Stated that REAL Examples of such failure exist.

2Peter 2:20-22

18 For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality,
those who barely escape from the ones who live in error,
19 promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved.
20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,
they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it,
to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "" A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,'' and,
""A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.''

 

[BobRyan]

Stated that REAL Examples of such failure exist.

2Peter 2:20-22

18 For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality,
those who barely escape from the ones who live in error,
19 promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved.
20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,
they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it,
to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "" A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,'' and,
""A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.''

Heb 6:4-8
4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been
made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify
to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open same.

Peter points out that only the saints are those who are “Partakers of the Holy Spirit” having “tasted the heavenly gift” AND “the powers of the age to come”

1 Pet 5

1Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed,

 

[J. Jump]

“the powers of the age to come”

Just curious, but what do you consider the "age to come" to be?

 

[BobRyan]

4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been
made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

having been born again - received the gifts of the Holy Spirit -- walking by faith not by sight, redeemed and having been given the promise of eternal life -- They then fell.

As Paul says in Gal 5:4 "Fallen from Grace...Severed from Christ"

 

[Lacy Evans]

Ah, there is what I REALLY asked....."Where is the line"?

"I have asked the questions necessary to show the viewer the error in your views. I even know that you cannot answer because the scriptures do not provide the answers needed to support your view."

This question refutes the doctrine? How come we don't hear anyone vehemently rejecting the doctrine of "rewards", because you can't actually KNOW what reward you get until your time is finished.

God rewards Christians according to their work?????!!! Preposterous!!! Where is the line I must cross to have absolute assurance that I will receive a reward.????


Why is it that the only time an honest question of a "line" in our behavior comes up is when the doctrine of (severe) negative reward (for severe, unrepented-of, negative behavior.)

This very answer of yours validates my argument. You teach something that leaves the student with nothing more than serve Jesus or suffer a 1000 years of torture!

If it is the truth, then it matters not how terrible the doctrine is.

2 Corinthians 5:9-11
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Oh, and btw, nobody knows for sure if your works will be accepted. That is not what I see our Lord teaching His children in the scriptures.

I know my works will be accepted when they are done in faith, perserverance, watchfulness, mercy, and hope!(1 Corinthians 3:14; Colossians 3:23; Hebrews 11:6 )

I also know if I show no fruit, that my lack of works will be rewarded. (Matt 25:24-30

If my works are evil, then my evil works will be rewarded. (2Pet 2:12, 13; Isaiah 3:11; Galatians 5:21; Ephesians 5:5; 1 Corinthians 6:9)


What I don't know is how I will finish. Neither did Paul. (1 Cor 9:27; 2 Cor 5:9-11; Phil 3:11-15; Heb 4:11)

lacy

 

[J. Jump]

Just curious, but what do you consider the "age to come" to be?

Maybe you missed the question Bob. Here it is again. Just curious, but what do you consider the "age to come" to be?

 

[BobRyan]

4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been
made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,


i.e. -- having been born again - received the gifts of the Holy Spirit -- walking by faith not by sight, redeemed and having been given the promise of eternal life -- They then fell.

As Paul says in Gal 5:4 "Fallen from Grace...Severed from Christ"

 

[BobRyan]

Steaver's irrefutable point on this thread is that

'DEPART FROM ME -- workers of iniquity I NEVER KNEW you" CAN NOT be spun around into "WELCOME blessed of My Father enter heaven - enter eternity with Me - enter bliss enter eternal life - for you are blessed with eternal life APART from knowing Christ"

No such spinning of scripture is possible - though is is NEEDED by the J Jump position.

Just stating the obvious.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

[/size][/font]
Maybe you missed the question Bob. Here it is again. Just curious, but what do you consider the "age to come" to be?

The AGE to come is "the next life" it begins at the appearing of Christ and NO MATTER WHICH group of saints you are (if you are a kind of person that imagines TWO groups of saints then) it still begins then and there.

For "The DEAD in Christ rise first" and then "WE who are alive and remain are caught up with them" NTHER group to deal with!

in Christ,

Bob

 

[J. Jump]

The AGE to come is "the next life"

So what is the "next life?" Are you equating the age to come with eternity?

 

[steaver]

(Jump)....And that is the same thing as how much can I get away with. Why would you want to know where the line is if you didn't want to know how much you could get away with. That's just plain silly.

Am I to believe that you can understand scripture when you show that you cannot understand the difference between two different questions?

"How much can I get away with?" #1, I never asked this question. #2, The very question carries with it a tone of wanting to "get away with something". This I never asked, nor as a Christian ever want to "get away" with anything that my Lord does not condone.

"Where is the line?" #1, IS what I asked. #2, It carries with it a Christian perspective of wanting to know where the line is so I can STAY FAR AWAY from that line!

Two VERY different questions with two VERY different prepositions!

(Jump)....Well don't you think that casting out demons was equally as "good" as leading someone to the Lord?

So now you are telling me that I cannot know if me leading people to the Lord will be accepted? But you do know right now if you should die your deeds will be accepted? Is this your position now?

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[J. Jump]

Am I to believe that you can understand scripture when you show that you cannot understand the difference between two different questions?

Why the childish statements? Is it really necessary? Does it really do anything to further your cause?

Where is the line obviously has different meanings for different folks. When you ask where is the line that means I need to know where the line is so I can dance as close to it as I can without getting burned.

Maybe instead of insulting someone with your kindergarten comments, you should have clarified "your" take on the question.

Now getting to what you actually "meant" with your question it is still irrelevant. You don't need to know where the line is to get away from it. You need to know how to get closer to Jesus. When you do that the line never comes into play.

That has been the whole point the entire time no matter what the meaning of the question is whether positive or negative. It's an irrelevant question either way.

So now you are telling me that I cannot know if me leading people to the Lord will be accepted?

I don't know if you can or not. I'm not you. I was merely giving you an example of people that thought there works were good and were fully expecting a positive response from their Lord. And they did not receive it.

I believe the biggest hurdle you face is the fact that you don't see that we are running a race, and if you do realize that you don't realize the purpose and you don't realize there is a prize that we are to be striving for. This is what you have eluded to in your postings.

Futhermore you have been pushing an anything goes and anything is okay, becuase we're all okay in the end doctrine that is as false as they come.