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meaning of a verse?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by grahame, Jun 18, 2007.

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  1. grahame

    grahame New Member

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    Not sure if this is the right forum. But can anyone give me the meaning of this verse in Deuteronomy 23:2
     
    #1 grahame, Jun 18, 2007
  2. Brother Shane

    Brother Shane New Member

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    I will sure try my best.

    To His people and the nation of Israel, God forbade an illegitimate child from holding a public office. This may have included other reasons, but generally referred to offspring from any of the prohibited marriages mentioned in Leviticus 18 & 20.

    Remember that the Old Testament Israel was unconverted, carnal people whose interests were only physical. According to 1 Peter 2:5 and 9, God is building a spiritual Family today rather than a physical one. Every person will have a chance to become a part of this Family depending on how he lives his OWN life.

    A child will not loose his chance of eternal life because of his parent's sins just like a parent won't loose a chance at eternal life because of their child's sins. A person's relationship with God is strictly between him and God. (Jeremiah 31:29-30 & Philippians 2:12)

    Jesus Christ commands us (Christians) to worship God in spirit and in truth. (John 4:23-24) That said, a person's ancestry will not determine the child's salvation. Back in the Old Testament, God chose only one nation to work with. Today, people from all nationalities and cultural backgrounds can enter the Kingdom of God upon true repentance and baptism. (Acts 17:30, Galatians 3:28-29 and II Peter 3:9.)

    [source: http://www.thercg.org/questions/p023.a.html]
     
    #2 Brother Shane, Jun 18, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2007
  3. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    grahame-

    I've recently gotten a new bible, the Chronological Bible. It compromises the entirety of the law into categories and gives some really good commentary.

    I'll just tell you what my bible says.

    "Not only are individuals (under the law) to keep themselves pure, but the whole congreation (of Israelites under the law) must also be without blemish. It is a chosen nation, a holy people. Therefore certain persons are specifically excluded from the spiritual congregation, though they are apparently permitted to enjoy covenant relationshp and to observe the Sabbaths in personal worship. Among the one excluded are those whose genitals are mutilated (perhaps in response to pagan practices of self-mutilation) and the children of certain forbidden relationships, such as prostitution and incest. These seemingly harsh exclusions are undoubtedly aimed at denouncing and preventing the practices which cause them."

    Persons excluded:
    • those with mutilated genitals (23:1)
    • those born from forbidden unions (23:2)
    • Moabites/Ammonites (23:3-6)
    • Edomites (23:7-8)
    My personal opinion is that these people were excluded from corporate worship, but not from personal worship.

     
    #3 Scarlett O., Jun 18, 2007
  4. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman Active Member

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    I am glad I am not Jewish, because I'd be a bastard.

    I am glad I am fully accepted into the family of God by the Father himself because of His Son.
     
    #4 SaggyWoman, Jun 18, 2007
  5. grahame

    grahame New Member

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    Ok, why I ask is because to exclude that child from the congregation of the Lord would have been a kind of punishment for that child who was an innocent person. So I was wondering if the meaning for the exclusion may have been a bit deeper than we suppose? I did wonder if this is connected with the next verse, where we read
    Do you think that this has something to do with the prohibition mentioned here?
     
    #5 grahame, Jun 18, 2007
  6. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    grahame-

    I think that the seeming harshness of it all was not to punish an individual, especially for something that he or she had no control over.

    And it has absolutely no reflection on today's Christian.

    It was to keep the Israelites ceremonially clean as a nation. To keep them separate from any other nation's possible worldly influences.

    Personally, I don't think the reference is completely about a child whose parents weren't married at the time of conception. I think the word, "bastard" meant a child born into a forbidden relationships that involved pagan religions or pagan practices. Especially since the proclamation was for several generations.

    As for the Moabites, don't forget that Ruth was a Moabite woman and her second mother-in-law, Rahab, the harlot, was from Jericho. Both of these "pagan" women were in the lineage of Jesus Christ. Their ancestors were pagans, but they surrendered to God. So, God is not about punishing individual people here, but about keeping his chosen nation pure in spirit.

    Remember Solomon, bringing all of those pagan practices into his household by marrying pagan women? The entire nation of Israel was never the same after his reign.
     
    #6 Scarlett O., Jun 18, 2007
  7. grahame

    grahame New Member

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    Thank you Scarlett, that sounds to be the right answer to me as well. I wanted to check with you guys before I gave my answer to the person concerned. It was a Muslim who was trying to say that a Bastard was forbidden to enter the kingdom of heaven. I told him that he had misquoted the verse and that these rules belonged to God's covenant people Israel and that also the words were not "kingdom of heaven", but "congregation of the Lord". I also quoted the NT verse from John's gospel, "The law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ". As well as the other passage where our Lord said, "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."
    But I did tell him that I would get back to him about the meaning of this verse in question. I said that because I was not entirely clear as the the meaning. You have clarified that to me now. Thank you.
     
    #7 grahame, Jun 19, 2007
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