meaning of Lord?

[nodak]

I was always taught that when the Bible speaks of confessing Jesus is Lord it means that we confess that He is God.

Lordship salvation folks say that it means we confess Him as boss.

Of course, God is boss, but which do you see as the primary meaning, and why?

 

[freeatlast]

It is both and more. First confessing is not simply stating or making a claim even if true. The Greek word (homologeō) that has been translated "confess" is not like our English word. We think of confess to state or admit a truth. The Greek word goes further and what we say has to agree in action with what we are saying. To confess Jesus as Lord is to accept Him for all He is by applying that confession to our lives. We are in fact laying down the gauntlet to receive God into our lives as He demands to be. Jesus said this;
Luke 6:46
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

In other words just because we might recognize Him as Lord and all that is involved and even confess that (say that) the confession is only true if we allow it to be applied to our lives.
People who confess Him as Lord and do not want to obey all He says (have Him Lord over their lives) are not Christians and will one day be in this number;
Matt 7:21-23
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Many a persons want Jesus as Savior, the One who pays for their sins (fire insurance), but few are willing to take Him as Master, King, and Lord of their lives. Only those who surrender to God in Christ, as Lord, which is faith, will be saved.

Keep this in mind. There will not be a single person in Heaven who has not totally surrender to the Lordship of Christ. No one who remains in rebellion in any way to all He is and all God is will be there. That same surrendered spirit is in every true believer who is here. If we cannot look into our hearts and honestly say we are surrendered to God's rule of our lives and we have placed that heart on Jesus Christ then we are not saved. There will be no rebellious hearts in heaven as the only thing that changes after we die will be the body because our hearts have already been changed through repentance towards God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ at the moment of salvation which is the new birth.

Matt 7:13.14
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[DHK]

I was always taught that when the Bible speaks of confessing Jesus is Lord it means that we confess that He is God.

Lordship salvation folks say that it means we confess Him as boss.

Of course, God is boss, but which do you see as the primary meaning, and why?

Personally, I think they have a wrong view.
Christ is Lord. There is nothing that you can do about that. There is no sin that can dethrone God. Nothing can. He is and always will be Lord. Why would people think that any puny thing we do can take away the title of "Lord" from Jesus Christ? They can't.

Thus, when a person trusts "the Lord Jesus Christ," He is Lord.
Your obligation is to submit to Him. If you don't submit to him you will be miserable. If you are a child of His, read Hebrews 12 and see how he deals with his children who disobey him. He chastens them. If you see one that lives in disobedience and never gets chastened, then I would be concerned about that person's salvation. A believer will be chastened by the Lord, and be miserable until he makes it right. But God will always be Lord, no matter what we do.

 

[JesusFan]

It is both and more. First confessing is not simply stating or making a claim even if true. The Greek word (homologeō) that has been translated "confess" is not like our English word. We think of confess to state or admit a truth. The Greek word goes further and what we say has to agree in action with what we are saying. To confess Jesus as Lord is to accept Him for all He is by applying that confession to our lives. We are in fact laying down the gauntlet to receive God into our lives as He demands to be. Jesus said this;
Luke 6:46
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

In other words just because we might recognize Him as Lord and all that is involved and even confess that (say that) the confession is only true if we allow it to be applied to our lives.
People who confess Him as Lord and do not want to obey all He says (have Him Lord over their lives) are not Christians and will one day be in this number;
Matt 7:21-23
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Many a persons want Jesus as Savior, the One who pays for their sins (fire insurance), but few are willing to take Him as Master, King, and Lord of their lives. Only those who surrender to God in Christ, as Lord, which is faith, will be saved.

Keep this in mind. There will not be a single person in Heaven who has not totally surrender to the Lordship of Christ. No one who remains in rebellion in any way to all He is and all God is will be there. That same surrendered spirit is in every true believer who is here. If we cannot look into our hearts and honestly say we are surrendered to God's rule of our lives and we have placed that heart on Jesus Christ then we are not saved. There will be no rebellious hearts in heaven as the only thing that changes after we die will be the body because our hearts have already been changed through repentance towards God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ at the moment of salvation which is the new birth.

Matt 7:13.14
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

When a person is saved by the Grace of God, placing their faith in Jesus as SAVIOUR, they also automatically receive Him as their Lord!

A Christian would need to see that jesus is God, died for their own sins, and after getting saved by God, will grow into making Jesus "Lord" over different areas of their lives..

That is a life long process, no "complete Lordship" until death or rapture!

 

[glfredrick]

Wrapped around the concept of "lord" is the kingship or rightful rule and reign of the one addessed in that manner. It can be applied to a mere human when conditions warrant and it is certainly applicable to the King of all kings.

I've found it an interesting topic to contemplate, i.e., the lack of ability for people in a republic or democracy to actually understand the concept of Lord. We simply have no real frame of reference that might come very naturally to an individual born under a king, where the whim of the king is the only thing that matters. In that regard, American Christians have, in large part, adopted a peculiar theology that makes God a very democratic God as if we actually have some choice that might effect the actions of that God. We believe that we have a say and a vote -- both of which actually violate the entire concept of "lord." Yes, one can always speak up to or back to the Lord, but the whim of the Lord in response to that action or attitude may or amost certainly will be one that the speaker does not appreciate... Best to simply bow the will -- the entire will as best as can be accomplished -- to the one we rightly call LORD.

 

[Aaron]

Wrapped around the concept of "lord" is the kingship or rightful rule and reign of the one addessed in that manner. It can be applied to a mere human when conditions warrant and it is certainly applicable to the King of all kings.

I've found it an interesting topic to contemplate, i.e., the lack of ability for people in a republic or democracy to actually understand the concept of Lord. We simply have no real frame of reference that might come very naturally to an individual born under a king, where the whim of the king is the only thing that matters. In that regard, American Christians have, in large part, adopted a peculiar theology that makes God a very democratic God as if we actually have some choice that might effect the actions of that God. We believe that we have a say and a vote -- both of which actually violate the entire concept of "lord." Yes, one can always speak up to or back to the Lord, but the whim of the Lord in response to that action or attitude may or amost certainly will be one that the speaker does not appreciate... Best to simply bow the will -- the entire will as best as can be accomplished -- to the one we rightly call LORD.

:thumbs: The American understanding of 'Lord' is soon to be corrected. Just sayin'.

 

[InTheLight]

Christ is Lord. There is nothing that you can do about that. There is no sin that can dethrone God. Nothing can. He is and always will be Lord. Why would people think that any puny thing we do can take away the title of "Lord" from Jesus Christ? They can't.

Interesting that according to Calvinists man has zero responsibility in the salvation process yet for Lordship Calvinists the exhortation is "you must make Jesus the Lord of your life."

 

[glfredrick]

:thumbs: The American understanding of 'Lord' is soon to be corrected. Just sayin'.

You mean that you are going to bring up that "every tongue confess and every knee bow" stuff? :laugh:

 

[JesusFan]

Interesting that according to Calvinists man has zero responsibility in the salvation process yet for Lordship Calvinists the exhortation is "you must make Jesus the Lord of your life."

Actually, cals belive that man MUST exercise personal faith in jesus to be saved by grace of God, in that, same way as Arms.non Cals, its just that we see as even the faith to believe as being a Gift from God!

 

[12strings]

Keep this in mind. There will not be a single person in Heaven who has not totally surrender to the Lordship of Christ. No one who remains in rebellion in any way to all He is and all God is will be there. That same surrendered spirit is in every true believer who is here. If we cannot look into our hearts and honestly say we are surrendered to God's rule of our lives and we have placed that heart on Jesus Christ then we are not saved. There will be no rebellious hearts in heaven as the only thing that changes after we die will be the body because our hearts have already been changed through repentance towards God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ at the moment of salvation which is the new birth.

A few questions regarding the bolded statements:

1. Since Christians still make the choice to sin even after their salvation, are we not all in violation of "not totally surrendering to the Lordship of Christ"? And so are we not all sometimes in some ways, in rebellion.

2. Is it really only our bodies that are changed when we die? No spiritual change at all? Would not that mean we can still choose to sin in heaven, since we obviously can now?

 

[JesusFan]

A few questions regarding the bolded statements:

1. Since Christians still make the choice to sin even after their salvation, are we not all in violation of "not totally surrendering to the Lordship of Christ"? And so are we not all sometimes in some ways, in rebellion.

fal seems to be indicatingf a state of "sinless prefection" is attainable in this present life, as he holds that we have new natures ONLY aftersalvation, so IF we kept on sinning at all, obviously due to us never being saved, as a new nature would prevent us from doing that!

2. Is it really only our bodies that are changed when we die? No spiritual change at all? Would not that mean we can still choose to sin in heaven, since we obviously can now?

Well, Apostle John stated that when we see Jesus, NOT NOW, at that time we will be changed to becoming just as He now is...

So there will be a final glorification process stil to come, as we will have both fully mind/body of Christ, so will never ever sin again, as we are totally removed from prsense of sin, and have capability to sin removed/purged rom us at that time!

IF have to choose between Fal and John, prefer to stick with inspired Apostle!

Thin that a basic problem with this entire discussion between us and fal is that he keeps avoiding that his views would mean either sinless perfection attainable right here and now, or else that one would NEVER have assurance of their salvation, as under an extreme form 'Lordship salvation"...

 

[freeatlast]

A few questions regarding the bolded statements:

1. Since Christians still make the choice to sin even after their salvation, are we not all in violation of "not totally surrendering to the Lordship of Christ"? And so are we not all sometimes in some ways, in rebellion.

2. Is it really only our bodies that are changed when we die? No spiritual change at all? Would not that mean we can still choose to sin in heaven, since we obviously can now?

1)Sort of like asking can a person can be a little bit pregnant. So the answer is no and I refer you back to post #2 as even in the mist of the surrender to Him being Lord over us we still can give into the temptation of the flesh.


2) The bible does not spell out an answer to your question, but I think the answer is yes we will always have the ability to sin, as angels who have no flesh still sinned. I don't think it will ever be impossible as we are free will beings.

 

[12strings]

1)Sort of like asking can a person can be a little bit pregnant. So the answer is no and I refer you back to post #2 as even in the mist of the surrender to Him being Lord over us we still can give into the temptation of the flesh.

I agree that we can still give in to tempation even while surrendering to Him being Lord. however, in those moments of sin, are we still in a state of total, 100% surrender to God. I would think not.

2) The bible does not spell out an answer to your question, but I think the answer is yes we will always have the ability to sin, as angels who have no flesh still sinned. I don't think it will ever be impossible as we are free will beings.

I have always heard that once we are in heaven we will not sin anymore...also that after the initial rebellion, that no more of the angels sinned. I would be of the opinion that is because once we are redeemed and fully Glorified, we will actually be in a better state than Adam and Eve were...Perfect, without sin, but without the ability to sin. And I would assume God somehow kept the other angels from sinning....But like you said, I don't have any scriptures for either of those. Does anyone else?

 

[glfredrick]

Interesting that according to Calvinists man has zero responsibility in the salvation process yet for Lordship Calvinists the exhortation is "you must make Jesus the Lord of your life."

You are incorrect... And you have just illustrated very well that you neither understand "salvation" nor "Calvinists."

 

[glfredrick]

I would argue that it is virtually impossible for a Christian to live in absolute obedience to the Lord. Paul made the same argument in Romans. His conclusion, (paraphrase) "Should we then sin because grace is great?" He answered his own rhetorical question, "By all means no..."

Should we strive? Absolutely. What if we fail? Isn't great that God imputes Christ's perfect righteousness unto us so that when we stand before His throne on that day of judgement, we are seen as perfect and unblemished? Glory to God!

 

[freeatlast]

I agree that we can still give in to tempation even while surrendering to Him being Lord. however, in those moments of sin, are we still in a state of total, 100% surrender to God. I would think not.



I have always heard that once we are in heaven we will not sin anymore...also that after the initial rebellion, that no more of the angels sinned. I would be of the opinion that is because once we are redeemed and fully Glorified, we will actually be in a better state than Adam and Eve were...Perfect, without sin, but without the ability to sin. And I would assume God somehow kept the other angels from sinning....But like you said, I don't have any scriptures for either of those. Does anyone else?

Like I said the bible does not tell us if we are able to sin or not after we die. That is all total speculation and the angles did sin so it is sort of a mute point.
As to the being surrendered to the Lordship of Christ I would say yes we are still surrendered. Giving into a temptation does not suggest we are not surrendered in spirit. Only that we gave into the flesh in a moment in time. We are not saying we do to want this man to rule over us as those who refuse to surrender to Him being their Lord and Master.

 

[freeatlast]

I would argue that it is virtually impossible for a Christian to live in absolute obedience to the Lord. Paul made the same argument in Romans. His conclusion, (paraphrase) "Should we then sin because grace is great?" He answered his own rhetorical question, "By all means no..."

Should we strive? Absolutely. What if we fail? Isn't great that God imputes Christ's perfect righteousness unto us so that when we stand before His throne on that day of judgement, we are seen as perfect and unblemished? Glory to God!

No Paul never made that argument. That is not what the passage is suggesting. Paul nor any writer in any of the books of the bible ever give man kind an excuse for their sinning as you are suggesting.
We can live with no sin, but most choose not to. It is not about being impossible but about choosing not to do it. All sin is a choice.

1Cor 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

 

[Aaron]

You mean that you are going to bring up that "every tongue confess and every knee bow" stuff? :laugh:

Sooner than that. I mean that America is quickly sliding into despotism.

 

[InTheLight]

You are incorrect... And you have just illustrated very well that you neither understand "salvation"

So you're saying I'm not saved?

nor "Calvinists."

Whoop-dee-do!

 

[JesusFan]

No Paul never made that argument. That is not what the passage is suggesting. Paul nor any writer in any of the books of the bible ever give man kind an excuse for their sinning as you are suggesting.
We can live with no sin, but most choose not to. It is not about being impossible but about choosing not to do it. All sin is a choice.

1Cor 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

Should we continue to sin after being saved by the Grace of God? NO
can we overcome sin habits in our lives by Christ power in us? YES
Will Christian still sin, sometimes even greatly, for a season? YES
Must we then confess it to God to be restored in fellowship? YES

ALL of that is in the Bible....

Avoid 2 extremes on this topic...

One is that since saved by Grace of God, so just relax and live as you please"once saved always saved"
Other extreme is that after saved by Grace of God, have to keep the law!