meaning of Lord?

[freeatlast]

Should we continue to sin after being saved by the Grace of God? NO
can we overcome sin habits in our lives by Christ power in us? YES
Will Christian still sin, sometimes even greatly, for a season? YES
Must we then confess it to God to be restored in fellowship? YES

ALL of that is in the Bible....

Avoid 2 extremes on this topic...

One is that since saved by Grace of God, so just relax and live as you please"once saved always saved"
Other extreme is that after saved by Grace of God, have to keep the law!

Should we continue to sin after being saved by the Grace of God? NO
can we overcome sin habits in our lives by Christ power in us? YES
Will Christian still sin, sometimes even greatly, for a season? YES/ NO A christians will never practice sin 1 John 3:9
Must we then confess it to God to be restored in fellowship? YES/ NO, we never lose fellwoship.

It is not about extremes. It is about truth and believing what the bible says.

 

[JesusFan]

Should we continue to sin after being saved by the Grace of God? NO
can we overcome sin habits in our lives by Christ power in us? YES
Will Christian still sin, sometimes even greatly, for a season? YES/ NO A christians will never practice sin 1 John 3:9
Must we then confess it to God to be restored in fellowship? YES/ NO, we never lose fellwoship.

It is not about extremes. It is about truth and believing what the bible says.

Your arguement in this is NOT against me, but against Apostles peter/paul/ and John!

They empahsised we can overcome and live victorious lives by the HS in us, but also that we do fall short at times, and Grace of God there to bring us back into the race!

 

[freeatlast]

Your arguement in this is NOT against me, but against Apostles peter/paul/ and John!

They empahsised we can overcome and live victorious lives by the HS in us, but also that we do fall short at times, and Grace of God there to bring us back into the race!

I understand your bible teaches that but I keep telling you to get rid of it for the real thing. No Christian practices sin. 1 John 3:9

 

[12strings]

Must we then confess it to God to be restored in fellowship? YES/ NO, we never lose fellwoship.

In Your view, when a Christian sins, what is the result of that sin, and what is the benefit gained by immediately confessing it and repenting?

 

[freeatlast]

In Your view, when a Christian sins, what is the result of that sin, and what is the benefit gained by immediately confessing it and repenting?

Just a question. Do you play an instrument. I ask that because of your board name.

Now, I challenge you to show me where the bible says we can lose fellowship with the Lord.
The sin is covered by the blood of Christ. No believer can pile up un-forgiven sin, even un-confessed sin, or they would be lost. The sin is covered the instant it is committed confessed or not.
When we sin the Spirit convicts us of the sin with the intent to get us to turn from the sin and bring our walk back in accord with the Holiness of the Lord. However as shocking as this may be no place does the NT tell us (command) to confess our individual sin so as to be forgiven, although I do believe we should, and will, as it comes naturally or has for me even before I read the bible. The only passage one might point to is 1 John 1:9 and that is not a command to confess individual sins. That is a statement of fact of those who are saved verses the Gnostics who denied they ever sin as can be seen in verse 10.

The English word "confess" means "to admit the truth of an accusation, to own up to the fact that one is guilty of having committed the sin." But the Greek word means far more than that. The verb is present subjunctive, speaking of continuous action. John is dealing with the false teachings of the Gnostics who claimed they never had any sin. In verse 9 John is saying that if we are those who are sin confessors (continual action) compared to those who say they never sin, we are those having our sins continually forgiven and are being continually cleansed from all unrighteousness. As I said no believer can have any unrighteousness pile up on them as they are constantly being washed even if we do not confess a sin. If that was not true just forget to confess a sin and we would be unrighteous and that cannot happen.

So we who are saved are sin confessors by nature (the new birth) and are continually being washed from all sin.
The result is that we grow in the Lord and the fellowship becomes sweeter, but no believer can be out of fellowship as He never leaves us. When growing up I had some times of good fellowship with my father and I had some times that were not so good fellowship, and those not so good times of fellowship were very painful when he got done with me, but the fellowship never ended it just changed depending on my actions and you can bet it was not a practice to be in the not so good fellowship times.

The only difference is I learned to obey my earthly father from pain through discipline and I obey my heavenly Father from love and chastening. In other words I obey because of the fellowship and if I sin He points it out (because of fellowship) and I say Your right and seek to stop doing that sin. The fellowship never ends for a real believer.

 

[12strings]

Just a question. Do you play an instrument. I ask that because of your board name.

Now, I challenge you to show me where the bible says we can lose fellowship with the Lord.
The sin is covered by the blood of Christ. No believer can pile up un-forgiven sin, even un-confessed sin, or they would be lost. The sin is covered the instant it is committed confessed or not.
When we sin the Spirit convicts us of the sin with the intent to get us to turn from the sin and bring our walk back in accord with the Holiness of the Lord. However as shocking as this may be no place does the NT tell us (command) to confess our individual sin so as to be forgiven, although I do believe we should, and will, as it comes naturally or has for me even before I read the bible. The only passage one might point to is 1 John 1:9 and that is not a command to confess individual sins. That is a statement of fact of those who are saved verses the Gnostics who denied they ever sin as can be seen in verse 10.

The English word "confess" means "to admit the truth of an accusation, to own up to the fact that one is guilty of having committed the sin." But the Greek word means far more than that. The verb is present subjunctive, speaking of continuous action. John is dealing with the false teachings of the Gnostics who claimed they never had any sin. In verse 9 John is saying that if we are those who are sin confessors (continual action) compared to those who say they never sin, we are those having our sins continually forgiven and are being continually cleansed from all unrighteousness. As I said no believer can have any unrighteousness pile up on them as they are constantly being washed even if we do not confess a sin. If that was not true just forget to confess a sin and we would be unrighteous and that cannot happen.

So we who are saved are sin confessors by nature (the new birth) and are continually being washed from all sin.
The result is that we grow in the Lord and the fellowship becomes sweeter, but no believer can be out of fellowship as He never leaves us. When growing up I had some times of good fellowship with my father and I had some times that were not so good fellowship, and those not so good times of fellowship were very painful when he got done with me, but the fellowship never ended it just changed depending on my actions and you can bet it was not a practice to be in the not so good fellowship times.

The only difference is I learned to obey my earthly father from pain through discipline and I obey my heavenly Father from love and chastening. In other words I obey because of the fellowship and if I sin He points it out (because of fellowship) and I say Your right and seek to stop doing that sin. The fellowship never ends for a real believer.

So you are saying that when a christian sins, our fellowship can change form, but not be broken? You recognize that a Christian can sin, and so mess up his experience of God's temporal blessings, and experience the consequences of such sins, but the fellowship with God remains? You simply do not call these consequences broken fellowship?

If so, I think what you are saying is very similar to those who say our standing or relationship before God does not change when we sin, but our fellowship is disrupted temporarily...you just don't want to use that language since the bible doesn't use that language.

ALSO... I do play 6 & 12-string guitars, Piano, Bass, Euphonium, congas, egg-shakers, and some penny-whistles on occasion...I am the Music Minister at my church.

 

[freeatlast]

So you are saying that when a christian sins, our fellowship can change form, but not be broken? You recognize that a Christian can sin, and so mess up his experience of God's temporal blessings, and experience the consequences of such sins, but the fellowship with God remains? You simply do not call these consequences broken fellowship?

If so, I think what you are saying is very similar to those who say our standing or relationship before God does not change when we sin, but our fellowship is disrupted temporarily...you just don't want to use that language since the bible doesn't use that language.

ALSO... I do play 6 & 12-string guitars, Piano, Bass, Euphonium, congas, egg-shakers, and some penny-whistles on occasion...I am the Music Minister at my church.

I can't speak for anyone else in regards to what you said. I try to say what the scripture says and seek diligently not to add to it or take from it so as not to confuse what it is saying.

It is more then not wanting to use that language. It is because the language is incorrect to say our fellowship is broken (as ends or stops). That suggests that we can some how get to the place where Christ is not living out His life in us on a daily bases which scripture rejects. I realize that there are many who claim (testify) it happened to them and they came back, but you just cannot find such in scripture, in fact scripture teaches the opposite.

I was once in a church where a friend of mine is a deacon. We were standing and talking one day along with the Pastor and this friend was telling his experience with the Lord. He was saying how he got saved as a youth and then as a young man went into the service where (his words) he "fell away from the Lord" and how after he got out of the service he rededicated his life to the Lord in front of that very church we were in.

I asked him this. What do you mean you fell away from the Lord? Do you mean you did not attend church as you should? Or not praying as you should? Or you were battling with some sin while confessing it but just not finding the victory over it or what?
He stated no he was living in sin and was not even thinking about the Lord during those years. I immediately told him he did not get saved as a youth although I was glad he finally did get saved later and he now needed to be baptized.
Fellowship is never broken for a believer. It is either sweet or painful, but never broken. There is never a time when the Lord is not dealing with His children one way or the other.
I have told this before and I will tell it again. I was saved nearly 30 years ago from s very sinful lifestyle. Since the day of my salvation there has not been a month, not a week, not a day, not an hour, not a minute I am not away of the Lord. Even in my sleep I am many times aware of Him. Everything I have done since I was saved the Lord is dealing with me one way or the other as I think about it. He is saying no, stay away from that, or don’t go there, or don’t say that, don’t do that, or what ever. Every single thing He has been involved with from major things to the smallest of things. Now I admit I have not always listened and then His dealing with me changes, but the fellowship is never broken for a believer. In the times of sin he is right there to correct me but there is no broken fellowship or falling away from the Lord. He never leaves us and we can never leave Him nor would we want to.
All that is true for any believer and we are believers because we have received Him as Lord, and Master which happens when we come to repentance towards God and faith in the Lord (not Savior) Jesus Christ.

 

[HankD]

...So we who are saved are sin confessors by nature (the new birth) and are continually being washed from all sin.
The result is that we grow in the Lord and the fellowship becomes sweeter, but no believer can be out of fellowship as He never leaves us. When growing up I had some times of good fellowship with my father and I had some times that were not so good fellowship, and those not so good times of fellowship were very painful when he got done with me, but the fellowship never ended it just changed depending on my actions and you can bet it was not a practice to be in the not so good fellowship times.

The only difference is I learned to obey my earthly father from pain through discipline and I obey my heavenly Father from love and chastening. In other words I obey because of the fellowship and if I sin He points it out (because of fellowship) and I say Your right and seek to stop doing that sin. The fellowship never ends for a real believer.

Good response FAL, however I have been walking with the Lord almost 50 years now and I can tell you that there have been times in my life when there was broken fellowship with God.

Yes I still prayed and called upon Him but the heavens were brass until He decided I had enough.

There was a time in my life when the following Psalm was my daily bread...

Psalm 88

O LORD God of my salvation, I have cried day and night before thee:
2 Let my prayer come before thee: incline thine ear unto my cry;
3 For my soul is full of troubles: and my life draweth nigh unto the grave.
4 I am counted with them that go down into the pit: I am as a man that hath no strength:
5 Free among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand.
6 Thou hast laid me in the lowest pit, in darkness, in the deeps.
7 Thy wrath lieth hard upon me, and thou hast afflicted me with all thy waves. Selah.
8 Thou hast put away mine acquaintance far from me; thou hast made me an abomination unto them: I am shut up, and I cannot come forth.
9 Mine eye mourneth by reason of affliction: LORD, I have called daily upon thee, I have stretched out my hands unto thee.
10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
12 Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?
13 But unto thee have I cried, O LORD; and in the morning shall my prayer prevent thee.
14 LORD, why castest thou off my soul? why hidest thou thy face from me?
15 I am afflicted and ready to die from my youth up: while I suffer thy terrors I am distracted.​

HankD

 

[freeatlast]

Good response FAL, however I have been walking with the Lord almost 50 years now and I can tell you that there have been times in my life when there was broken fellowship with God.

Yes I still prayed and called upon Him but the heavens were brass until He decided I had enough.

There was a time in my life when the following Psalm was my daily bread...

Psalm 88

O LORD God of my salvation, I have cried day and night before thee:
2 Let my prayer come before thee: incline thine ear unto my cry;
3 For my soul is full of troubles: and my life draweth nigh unto the grave.
4 I am counted with them that go down into the pit: I am as a man that hath no strength:
5 Free among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand.
6 Thou hast laid me in the lowest pit, in darkness, in the deeps.
7 Thy wrath lieth hard upon me, and thou hast afflicted me with all thy waves. Selah.
8 Thou hast put away mine acquaintance far from me; thou hast made me an abomination unto them: I am shut up, and I cannot come forth.
9 Mine eye mourneth by reason of affliction: LORD, I have called daily upon thee, I have stretched out my hands unto thee.
10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
12 Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?
13 But unto thee have I cried, O LORD; and in the morning shall my prayer prevent thee.
14 LORD, why castest thou off my soul? why hidest thou thy face from me?
15 I am afflicted and ready to die from my youth up: while I suffer thy terrors I am distracted.​

HankD

Hank the fellowship was not broken. The fact that you kept crying out proves that. It was like I said, painful, but it was there. No fellowship means no communication, but you were crying out to God and God was communicating to you His displeasure by making you feel empty. You were still thinking of Him or you would not be crying out to Him and the only way you were thinking of Him is because He was in fellowship with you even if it was not pleasant or the way you would have liked it. Our fellowship is never broken if we are saved.

 

[JesusFan]

Hank the fellowship was not broken. The fact that you kept crying out proves that. It was like I said, painful, but it was there. No fellowship means no communication, but you were crying out to God and God was communicating to you His displeasure by making you feel empty. You were still thinking of Him or you would not be crying out to Him and the only way you were thinking of Him is because He was in fellowship with you even if it was not pleasant or the way you would have liked it. Our fellowship is never broken if we are saved.

What you fail to see in this is that while it is indeed true that once saved by Grace of God, thru Cross of Christ, that God always sees us thru the Cross, but we can and do "jam up" the fellowship/gets "broken" from our side, as we will experience loss of feeling presense of God, feeling that we are 'forsaken", and will have little via answering prayers or empowering!

Godly repentance will come from true believers, see peter/david, but just professing believers will NOT return to the Lord, as not saved by Him, see Judas!

 

[HankD]

OK but as far as I was concerned there was no fellowship.

Slowly the darkness became less and less.
It lasted in total for several years, then came the dawn.

Psalm 18:6 In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears.​

HankD​

 

[DHK]

Our fellowship is never broken if we are saved.

This isn't true. When I was born again, I was born into God's family. That relationship, being His child, will never be broken. My relationship with Christ as Savior will never be broken. He will never leave me nor forsake me. But the fellowship can and will be broken by sin. It always is. We can grieve the Holy Spirit; quench the Holy Spirit; be not filled with the Holy Spirit, be not yielded to the Holy Spirit; etc. Any of these things may cause one to be out of fellowship with the Lord. There are sins of omission, not just commission. Just because you didn't commit murder doesn't mean you have fellowship with God. Did you neglect to spend time with him in prayer and in his Word, like your heart was telling you; like you know He commands you? Fellowship with God depends both on what you do and what you don't do. Be sure your walk with God is sweetened by His Word.

"Now you are made clean through the Word that I have spoken unto you."

 

[nodak]

Let's toss a bit of history in here, and see what you think.

I was taught that under the Romans folks had to say "Caesar is Lord." That when they made their offering to him they were saying he was more than ruler, but also a god.

For Christians to say "Jesus is Lord" was to admit His deity. Now, of course the God of the universe is also boss of it. But the point was His deity.

What think ye?

 

[freeatlast]

What you fail to see in this is that while it is indeed true that once saved by Grace of God, thru Cross of Christ, that God always sees us thru the Cross, but we can and do "jam up" the fellowship/gets "broken" from our side, as we will experience loss of feeling presense of God, feeling that we are 'forsaken", and will have little via answering prayers or empowering!

Godly repentance will come from true believers, see peter/david, but just professing believers will NOT return to the Lord, as not saved by Him, see Judas!

No believer practices sin 1 JOhn 3:9

 

[freeatlast]

This isn't true. When I was born again, I was born into God's family. That relationship, being His child, will never be broken. My relationship with Christ as Savior will never be broken. He will never leave me nor forsake me. But the fellowship can and will be broken by sin. It always is. We can grieve the Holy Spirit; quench the Holy Spirit; be not filled with the Holy Spirit, be not yielded to the Holy Spirit; etc. Any of these things may cause one to be out of fellowship with the Lord. There are sins of omission, not just commission. Just because you didn't commit murder doesn't mean you have fellowship with God. Did you neglect to spend time with him in prayer and in his Word, like your heart was telling you; like you know He commands you? Fellowship with God depends both on what you do and what you don't do. Be sure your walk with God is sweetened by His Word.

"Now you are made clean through the Word that I have spoken unto you."

Well show me in scripture were it says our fellowship can be broken.

 

[JesusFan]

Well show me in scripture were it says our fellowship can be broken.

Apostle John in 1 John 1 addresses this very issue, as he wanted us to know that god desires us to have fellowship with Him thru Jesus, and that IF we sin, we need to confess that to God, in order to have Him forgive and restore us back in fellowship with Himself through jesus Christ His Son!

 

[JesusFan]

No believer practices sin 1 JOhn 3:9

Define "practice!"

 

[freeatlast]

Define "practice!"

Use the search feature and read through all my posts in all the threads. I have done so many times.

 

[freeatlast]

Apostle John in 1 John 1 addresses this very issue, as he wanted us to know that god desires us to have fellowship with Him thru Jesus, and that IF we sin, we need to confess that to God, in order to have Him forgive and restore us back in fellowship with Himself through jesus Christ His Son!

The book was written to combat the false teachings of the gnostics.When a believer sins he does not lose fellowship.

 

[JesusFan]

The book was written to combat the false teachings of the gnostics.When a believer sins he does not lose fellowship.

Who were John addressing there in chaper 1 then?
The Gnostics?

Again, you take ONE verse, build theology on it, yet ignore the contex and the Greek!