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Mercy cannot be demanded. "Sue for Mercy." Get Assurance.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Alan Gross, Feb 27, 2023.

  1. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    pg.14 of 19; excerpts from
    Explaining the text of Romans 9 from a Calvinist Perspective.

    Romans-9.pdf

    Romans 9:14-18.

    "Here Paul begins by raising another counter-argument, this time regarding the injustice of
    God that could be perceived on account of his election (v. 14). Paul counters this argument of
    injustice by pointing to the absolute freedom of God to have mercy on whom he desires (v. 15).


    In this, we see the usage of the terms “mercy” and “compassion” which are verbs of God’s action
    of choosing whom he will act upon.

    “Whom” here is singular indicating that there are individuals
    in mind who will be literally “mercied” or “compassioned.”

    Verse 16 re-stresses God’s absolute
    sovereignty and unconditional election of individuals, “So then it depends not on human will or
    exertion, but on God, who has mercy.”

    Why is God’s election fair?

    Because he is absolutely free in all of his actions to do as he pleases according to his purposes and neither man’s will.... or exertion plays a role.

    Paul demonstrates God’s mercy upon individuals and moves the point further by moving
    to God’s sovereignty in Egypt.

    Paul points to the reality that it was God’s intention to judge
    Egypt and bring glory to himself through the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart (v. 17). Paul then
    stresses, “So then he has mercy on whomever he wills and he hardens whomever he wills” (v.
    18) before raising the last anticipated objection.

    Verse 18 here also utilizes the singular, bringing
    to the forefront individuals yet again, as the individual of Pharaoh is presented as an example.
    Paul’s last anticipated objection is whether or not man can be held responsible for his
    response to God, “for who can resist his will?" (v. 19).

    Paul raises the simple point that the created
    creature is in no position to question how the sovereign potter molds his clay (v. 20) while yet
    again using the singular verbiage.

    Verse 21 stresses that the potter has the right over his creatures, to
    purpose them, for either honorable or dishonorable use.

    The theme of God’s absolute sovereignty
    continues and as we continue through the text we read,
    “What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured
    with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the
    riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory”
    (v.
    22-23).

    Paul’s discussion of God’s sovereign and free election to salvation has moved to show that
    there is no charge against God, for he has the complete freedom to do that which he pleases.


    In 9:22-23 we see that some vessels receive mercy while others are purposed for destruction.

    It needs to be raised yet again, that the singular is utilized when speaking of a vessel being molded
    for honor while another is molded for dishonor in verse 21.

    Noteworthy is the usage of “vessel” which is always used for individuals, which we can see in 1 Thessalonians 4:4, 2 Timothy 2:211, and 1 Peter 3:7.
    pg.15 of 20

    While many questions can arise from this passage, there is no question that Paul’s
    continued terminology and subject matter deals with salvation.

    In verses 22-23, we see first the term “destruction” which refers to “annihilation or ruin” while it also refers to final destruction in various other passages (Harvery, 2017. p. 240).

    Such destruction cannot be mistaken as anything other than judgment, especially in light of Paul’s example of Pharaoh.

    Additionally,
    Paul reaffirms the vessels of mercy will be glorified, “prepared beforehand for glory,” as he
    mentioned in the “golden chain” of Romans 8:28-30.

    Paul moves into the extension of election to the Gentiles in verse 24 in which Paul states, “even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles.”

    God’s Sovereign Election

    Paul begins the chapter of Romans 9 by answering the question that was likely in the
    minds of his audience, why has God’s people rejected their messiah?

    Paul’s answer is that God’s word has not failed, but that there is a distinction between physical Israel and spiritual Israel.

    Moving from there, Paul points to the simple fact that God has not given the promise to all of
    physical Israel, but only the children of promise receive the promises of God.

    Paul demonstrates that God, through his purpose of election, selected individuals to be the children of promise.

    Paul then explains that there is no injustice on God’s part because God is free to do as he pleases in showing mercy to whom he desires and in hardening those whom he desires.

    From here Paul
    pg. 16 of 20
    addresses further “unfairness” by pointing back to God’s sovereignty over the creature who is
    described as mere clay in the hands of the potter.

    All of the discussion ties back to the primary issue of why Paul’s kinsmen were not saved, while Paul defended the reality that the word of God did not fail (v. 6).

    The implications of Romans 9 in the life of a believer are straightforward and firstly
    summarized in a simple term: assurance.

    If the Jewish Christians had reasons to doubt God’s promises because many of their kinsmen rejected the Messiah, then how could any Gentile have an assurance of the promises Paul mentioned in 8:28-38?

    In Paul’s explanation of why his kinsmen rejected the promise of salvation through Jesus Christ, we learn that God’s promises had never failed, but rather that individuals had misunderstood them or taken them for granted.

    Paul actually carries Romans 9 through chapter 11 to further show God’s faithfulness to those who are children of the promise, but it is ultimately the unconditional sovereign election of God that we
    can have an assurance of salvation.

    If our selection was based on “work” rather than “call” then we would never be able to have true assurance of salvation.

    It is on basis of the pure – free – mercy of God that we can trust that we who have been called will be glorified.

    Romans 9 also solidifies the reality that God is indeed sovereign over all and Paul
    provides a response to those who raise objections.

    To those who say God is unjust for not saving everyone, Paul responds with the reality that God is free to give mercy to whom he desires.

    Mercy cannot be demanded.


    To those who raise the objection of; how does God still find fault?

    Paul reminds us that we are mere clay in the hands of the potter and as such we are in no
    position to “talk back” to God.

    God operates in his completely free sovereign will for his own purposes to the praise of his glory.
    pg. 17 of 20

    In the examination of Romans 9, there can be a solid case made that this text speaks on the
    the salvation of individuals to some extent or another.

    The soteriology and God’s election of individuals in Romans 9 is difficult to dispute, which is why, I believe, many classical Arminians have affirmed such but within the framework of conditional election...

    ...
    Hopefully, however, this PDF will
    give you a starting point in understanding the Calvinist’s perspective of the text."
     
  2. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Wow...another long diatribe from a "brother." Probably not one original thought in the whole post.
     
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  3. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Probably, the most God-Honoring thing posted to the web all day.

    And you missed it?

    Mercy cannot be demanded.

    You really don't know, do you?

    Hopefully, however, this PDF will give you a starting point in understanding the Calvinist’s perspective of the text.
     
  4. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Typical BS Calvinist reply...."You don't understand Calvinism."
    Believe me, I understand far more than you'll ever know. Get a grip. Long diatribes don't cut it with most people, and it certainly doesn't cut it with me, The copy and paste or PDF methodology is old and nothing new comes of the spewings of books outsider the Bible that are man's understanding on soteriology.
     
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  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    To be fair, originality and theology are not the best of friends. ;)
     
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  6. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    You seem to have a hard time reading my posts and Worshiping God.
     
  7. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    And neither are long diatribes of other people's thoughts. Of course, Alan would agree and like your statement as he's the one who has been called out for this.
     
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  8. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Click on "Alan Gross", at the top of my post, then see the blue lettering and the last word to the right, " Ignore". Click on that. Or ask JonC how to ' ignore' a member's posts, if it is not there.

    I don't want to cause anyone Spiritual discomfort, as the result of my personal work for the Lord.

    If I knew of a long diatribe of other people's thoughts on how to stop someone from feeling sorry for themselves because of me, believe it, I could make better money than I am here.

    But, if you weren't feeling sorry for yourself about me, you'd be feeling sorry for yourself about something else.
     
    #8 Alan Gross, Feb 28, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2023
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  9. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Why would I want to ignore you? You're ASSuming far too much. I'm not one who feels sorry for myself...but YOU on the other hand seem to be one who has a martyr complex. Go figure....Must have been "preordained!" LOL
     
  10. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    I don't remember anything about that.
     
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