Mere men

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Churches are not perfect because they are made up of redeemed sinners.

I taught on 1 Corinthians 3:1-4 today. It reads, "And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men? For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not mere men?"

The Corinthian church was experiencing jealousy and strife. The Corinthian church was experiencing gross immorality (1 Cor. 5:1). Christians were suing one another (1 Cor. 6:1). The Corinthian church was dishonoring the poor by abusing the Lord's Supper (1 Cor. 11:17-22). The Corinthian church was turning prophecy and tongues into a sideshow and power grab (1 Cor. 14). But even with all of this going on the Apostle Paul addressed them as "the church of God" and "saints by calling" (1 Cor. 1:2).

No one on this board is a modern day prophet who has been commissioned by God to purify the churches in his area. All churches are, as our Baptist forefathers described them, partly "mixture and error". To keep oneself from being joined with God's people because a local church has error in one or more areas fails to take into account that each one of us is in the same category. We have this dichotomy within us. I am not saying we should be joined to a local body that clearly denies the Gospel. But we need to be careful that we do not create a litmus test that no church can possibly pass.

If they do not pursue the Great Commission, are they not denying the gospel? What if the pastor is deceptive, is that following the gospel? What if you were lied to by the pastor, do you consider him a representative of God?

You know Ive asked this to myself over & over & I come to the same conclusion.....I will therefore stand by my earlier conviction & end my interaction with them. After all, Im only 3 years Saved & I must keep myself pure.

2 Timothy 2:21-26

21 Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable,[a] he will be a vessel for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to the master of the house, ready for every good work.

22 So flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. 23 Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. 24 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, 25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

BTW Herald, how do you know this, has God provided such insight to you that you are in the know? Are you in touch with the Mind of God? Just curious.

Your statement....."No one on this board is a modern day prophet who has been commissioned by God to purify the churches in his area."

 

[Herald]

BTW Herald, how do you know this, has God provided such insight to you that you are in the know? Are you in touch with the Mind of God? Just curious.

Your statement....."No one on this board is a modern day prophet who has been commissioned by God to purify the churches in his area."

Because the age of the prophets is over.

 

[DocTrinsoGrace]

would you have told that to Arthur Pink?

Yes, I would have done -- because I am confessional, and that quote is a part of our Baptist confessional heritage (based upon the Scriptures annotated). Sadly, but a few miles from where A. W. Pink spent his last years, there was a congregation that would have received him and appreciated him.

I do not think that I could teach anything to Pink, nor am I trying to instruct you, sir. I am simply offering up the Historic Baptist perspective on the matter at hand.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yes, I would have done -- because I am confessional, and that quote is a part of our Baptist confessional heritage (based upon the Scriptures annotated). Sadly, but a few miles from where A. W. Pink spent his last years, there was a congregation that would have received him and appreciated him.

I do not think that I could teach anything to Pink, nor am I trying to instruct you, sir. I am simply offering up the Historic Baptist perspective on the matter at hand.

And if you have nothing in your vicinity?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Because the age of the prophets is over.

Give me scripture to confirm that.......Martyn Lloyd Jones does not agree with you. According to him & 1Thessalonians 5:19 you are quenching the HS.

19 Do not quench the Spirit.

 

[Herald]

Give me scripture to confirm that.......Martyn Lloyd Jones does not agree with you. According to him & 1Thessalonians 5:19 you are quenching the HS.

19 Do not quench the Spirit.

What are the hallmarks of a prophet? By prophet I mean the office of prophet, not a preacher who is a prophet in the sense he preaches the Word of God. We can go to Titus and 1 and 2 Timothy to look at the positive command for pastors and bishops/elders in the New Testament church. Nowhere in the New Testament do we find any positive command for the office of prophet within the local church. In fact there is no recognized office outside of the local church.

Your accusation of quenching the Spirit is unfounded. Every teaching is to be compared to the Bible for accuracy and truthfulness. If some character were to come into our assembly and seek to utter a prophecy I would not waiver for one minute. I would have them tossed out on their ear. God speaks through His word by the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[John of Japan]

If they do not pursue the Great Commission, are they not denying the gospel? What if the pastor is deceptive, is that following the gospel? What if you were lied to by the pastor, do you consider him a representative of God?

Yeah, right. You're the guy who has rejected me being a foreign missionary. Admit it, you don't really believe in the Great Commission. :tongue3:

 

[DocTrinsoGrace]

And if you have nothing in your vicinity?

That is a problem with which I have not yet had to contend -- but only by the grace of God. We currently drive almost an hour to our church -- I say "The doctrine is worth the distance." While searching, though, a former pastor told me that I should start a church in my area. However, I am not equipped for that, nor would I be eligible even to be an elder. We tried closer churches, but there were too many doctrinal issues for their taste or mine.

I may not know the answer, but I do know One who can answer our prayers over and above what we can imagine! I will address it to our Lord for those who face this conundrum.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

That is a problem with which I have not yet had to contend -- but only by the grace of God. We currently drive almost an hour to our church -- I say "The doctrine is worth the distance." While searching, though, a former pastor told me that I should start a church in my area. However, I am not equipped for that, nor would I be eligible even to be an elder. We tried closer churches, but there were too many doctrinal issues for their taste or mine.

I may not know the answer, but I do know One who can answer our prayers over and above what we can imagine! I will address it to our Lord for those who face this conundrum.

Well I had a long conversation with Him one day about this subject & we did come to terms, only I dont want to do it & I have no Idea how to do it. Been in this area off & on for 57 years & there are reasons for my flailing around. Id like nothin more than a good Baptist church to either develop (I will help & have offered my services) but it just dont happen. God, just send one of those SBC modern churches but nothin. I call over to the Reformed Baptists in ARUBA in Harrisburg & I get told it takes good money to establish somethin in the area. So it aint for lack of trying. So its up to Him now & Im awaitin.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yeah, right. You're the guy who has rejected me being a foreign missionary. Admit it, you don't really believe in the Great Commission. :tongue3:

I believe in it when the Lord sends you & I believe in it on a local basis. When you cant get a church to walk the streets of their own community or have a church plant done in a void area of your own country, you got allot of problems......but of course, sigh me up for sending you to Japan.....just tell me were to send the check (how much is bus fare).

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

What are the hallmarks of a prophet? By prophet I mean the office of prophet, not a preacher who is a prophet in the sense he preaches the Word of God. We can go to Titus and 1 and 2 Timothy to look at the positive command for pastors and bishops/elders in the New Testament church. Nowhere in the New Testament do we find any positive command for the office of prophet within the local church. In fact there is no recognized office outside of the local church.

Your accusation of quenching the Spirit is unfounded. Every teaching is to be compared to the Bible for accuracy and truthfulness. If some character were to come into our assembly and seek to utter a prophecy I would not waiver for one minute. I would have them tossed out on their ear. God speaks through His word by the power of the Holy Spirit.

There is no office of prophet.... Only if the Holy Spirit deems it......and he can take it away at any point. I assumed you knew that.....that will teach me to assume , specifically with you.

But so I know, you disagree with Martyn Lloyd Jones , correct? Just so I am clear.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

That is a problem with which I have not yet had to contend -- but only by the grace of God. We currently drive almost an hour to our church -- I say "The doctrine is worth the distance." While searching, though, a former pastor told me that I should start a church in my area. However, I am not equipped for that, nor would I be eligible even to be an elder. We tried closer churches, but there were too many doctrinal issues for their taste or mine.

I may not know the answer, but I do know One who can answer our prayers over and above what we can imagine! I will address it to our Lord for those who face this conundrum.

Thank You.....you would probably be the first to handle it ....beyond myself. However brother, I am content to wait on the lord for the answer & I welcome your prayers.

 

[Herald]

There is no office of prophet.... Only if the Holy Spirit deems it......and he can take it away at any point. I assumed you knew that.....that will teach me to assume , specifically with you.

And this is why I come back the authority of the local church. According to your schema who determines what is deemed by the Holy Spirit? If I were to guess, in relation to office of prophet, it would be person who presumes to be one. No other ecclesiastical authority enters into the picture. If someone where to say, "I do not believe you were called to be a prophet" then we have the so-called prophet asking, "Are you calling me a liar?"

The local church is the entity that ordains ministers of the Gospel. And since there is no office of prophet the local church has no lawful right to ordain such an office.

But so I know, you disagree with Martyn Lloyd Jones , correct? Just so I am clear.

Provide me the quotes and context of what MLJ said and we can have a conversation about it.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

And this is why I come back the authority of the local church. According to your schema who determines what is deemed by the Holy Spirit? If I were to guess, in relation to office of prophet, it would be person who presumes to be one. No other ecclesiastical authority enters into the picture. If someone where to say, "I do not believe you were called to be a prophet" then we have the so-called prophet asking, "Are you calling me a liar?"

The local church is the entity that ordains ministers of the Gospel. And since there is no office of prophet the local church has no lawful right to ordain such an office.



Provide me the quotes and context of what MLJ said and we can have a conversation about it.

Explain Local Church? See thats what you dont seem to understand. There is no local church.

 

[Herald]

Explain Local Church? See thats what you dont seem to understand. There is no local church.

Well then, we do have a wide gulf between us.

Do me a favor. When you have time read what the Particular Baptists of the 17th century had to say about the church. All the scripture proofs are there. If you want to discuss it further then start a new thread since we are getting off topic here.

Of the Church

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well then, we do have a wide gulf between us.

Do me a favor. When you have time read what the Particular Baptists of the 17th century had to say about the church. All the scripture proofs are there. If you want to discuss it further then start a new thread since we are getting off topic here.

Of the Church

Tell ya what...you put one here and I will join it...hows that?