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'Miracle' -- teen's heart, stopped for 4 days, beats again

Discussion in '2007 Archive' started by Martin, Feb 12, 2007.

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  1. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    Story Highlights

    • Boy, 17, collapses after jogging in gym class
    • Teen found to have heart defect
    • Heart stops as boy waits for transplant on bypass machine
    • Heart begins beating again on its own; "it's a miracle," doctor says

    CNN.COM LINK
     
    #1 Martin, Feb 12, 2007
  2. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Wow! The human body is amazing. Even more amazing is the God who created it! :thumbs:

    "I believe in miracles,
    I've seen a soul set free.
    Miraculous, the change in one
    redeemed by Calvary.
    I've seen the lily
    push it's way
    up through the stubborn sod.
    I believe in miracles -
    for I believe in God."

    (Sorry, can't remember the author's name)
     
    #2 Scarlett O., Feb 12, 2007
  3. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Absolutely amazing work of grace. Thanks Martin, this is really an uplifting and positive post, and very refreshing from the continual drone of the Calvin free will threads. May this teen have a long and healthy life because of God's love.
     
    #3 saturneptune, Feb 12, 2007
  4. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    If he had not been on that 'bypass machine' for 4 days, would his heart have restarted anyway? I might call such a case as THAT a miracle. But as it was, I can't classify it as an absolute physical impossibility, which is what a miracle is.
     
    #4 Alcott, Feb 12, 2007
  5. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    Party pooper.....:D
     
    #5 tinytim, Feb 13, 2007
  6. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

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    I agree with alcott.
    Biblically speaking; a miracle is that which defies natural laws. You won't find the Bible calling something man does "a miracle".

    Check it out for yourself.

    And quit calling common things a miracle. The only difference between this and other heart surgeries is that this went on for four days. But the truth is that a MACHINE kept him alive.

    Nothing miraculous there.
     
    #6 av1611jim, Feb 13, 2007
  7. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    It figures.
     
    #7 saturneptune, Feb 13, 2007
  8. Daisy

    Daisy New Member

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    Well, now that you mention it....
     
    #8 Daisy, Feb 13, 2007
  9. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    Well let's see what a medical doctor had to say (and this is from the cnn story)...

    "I've been a surgeon for 10 years, and this is probably one of the most incredible things I've ever seen," said Dr. Abeel Mangi, one of Walker's cardiac surgeons at New York-Presbyterian Hospital Columbia...
    "It's a miracle," Mangi said. "There's really no other way to put it."

    I agree with the medical doctor it was a miracle. Just because it is not totally impossible under normal physical conditions does not mean it is not a miracle. Modern medicine can cure certain disorders (etc) that Jesus performed miracles to cure. Does that mean Jesus did not perform a miracle? Certainly not. A miracle is something God does. According to the doctor it is unlikely that this boy's heart should have started back beating after four days. The doctor classified this as a miracle, and I agree with his assesment of the situation. We must keep in mind that miracles come in different shapes and forms. The minute we start denying that is the very minute we are in serious trouble.
     
    #9 Martin, Feb 13, 2007
  10. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    ==A man did not restart this boy's heart. If you read the article you will find that the doctor was shocked that the heart restarted on it's own. The machine the boy was on was a bypass machine which is sort of acts like a heart in order to keep the person alive while their heart is not beating (these machines are used in some bypass surgeries, etc). That machine would not cause the heart to restart. That is why the doctor was so shocked by what happened. Man did not do this.


    ==There is nothing common about a heart that has been stopped for four days starting back on its own. The bypass machine just kept the boy's brain (and other organs) from dying from a lack of blood/oxygen, it could not restart the boy's heart. That is why the doctor called this a miracle. There is nothing, nothing common about this event.
     
    #10 Martin, Feb 13, 2007
  11. JamieinNH

    JamieinNH New Member

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    Thanks for the story Martin!

    You are correct Martin, the bypass machine just keeps the blood circulating since the heart isn't beating.

    Even during a heart operation, the Doctor has to use paddles to get the heart started again.

    It amazes me that people who know the Word and are Christians would dismiss this so quickly.

    How little is their God that they don't believe this to be an absolute miracle!


    Jamie
    How BIG is your God?
     
    #11 JamieinNH, Feb 13, 2007
  12. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    ==I think the reason for their dismissal is two fold. First there have been alot of fake miracles (etc) and this has caused many Christians to be very skeptical when it comes to these claims. While being skeptical is not bad it can be dangerous if it is taken to any extreme. Those who read this story should have picked up on the fact that the doctor (a human) did not restart this boy's heart, nor did the machine. Second the idea that God does not do these things anymore is widespread in the church. Even many of those who "say" they believe God still performs miracles sometimes show, in practice, that they don't really believe that. The false doctrine has slipped into their thinking and they are probably not even aware of it. I don't know which of the two groups some here fall into but I am sure each one who dismissed this story would fall into one of the two groups.
     
    #12 Martin, Feb 13, 2007
  13. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    The new definition of miracle is something "unlikely" that did happen?
     
    #13 Alcott, Feb 16, 2007
  14. NiteShift

    NiteShift New Member

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    What, does a lightning bolt have to issue forth from out of the clear blue sky before an event can be classified as miraculous? There's no medical explanation for what happened in that boy's case.
     
    #14 NiteShift, Feb 16, 2007
  15. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

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    "...kept alive by a by pass machine.... "

    Nothing miraculous here. A 'miracle' is Divine intervention contrary to natural laws.

    Two days later doctors "fixed" the flawed heart. Had this been a true miracle there would have been no need to 'fix' it.

    Sorry guys. I agree this is a wonderful event for the boy and his family but this is not a miracle of God. God doesn't part way fix anything. Whenever Jesus healed someone they were WHOLE immediately. Not part way fixed.

    Please stop trivializing God's true miracle's by ascribing every amazing work of man to God.
     
    #15 av1611jim, Feb 16, 2007
  16. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    Clearly you are missing the point. The by pass machine cannot, and did not, restart this boy's heart. The doctors did not restart his heart either.
     
    #16 Martin, Feb 16, 2007
  17. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

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    No sir, it is you who are missing my point.

    Had this been a true 'miracle' of God the docs would not have NEEDED to fix his heart TWO days later.
     
    #17 av1611jim, Feb 16, 2007
  18. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    This is a miracle. God can use any means He wants to accomplish his purposes including medical procedures. There is no defintion by God of a miracle. Maybe you and Alcott could apply to the Catholic Church and have this investigated and get church sanction. Better yet, if you are looking for the carnival act miracle, maybe you two could go on the Bennie Hinn show, and he can wack you both on the forehead, then it would be a miracle if you dont have headaches the next morning.
     
    #18 saturneptune, Feb 16, 2007
  19. JamieinNH

    JamieinNH New Member

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    Martin,

    Don't sweat the small stuff. Let the nay-sayers say and believe what they will. People that clearly have no knowledge or are totaly blind by the results of the procedure will believe whatever they want to.

    I firmly believe it was a miracle, and I am glad that my God is a powerful, and merciful God that still to this day performs miracles of all sizes and in all manners.

    Jamie
    The miracle is within the beating of the heart, not the repairs it needed.
     
    #19 JamieinNH, Feb 16, 2007
  20. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    The "docs", as you refer to them as, did not restart his heart. The machine did not restart his heart. The miracle is that the boy's heart started again, on it's own.
     
    #20 Martin, Feb 16, 2007
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