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Misrepresentations Of True Calvinism ...

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Rippon, Mar 5, 2006.

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  1. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Cleared Away .

    In 1861 Spurgeon was preaching for the first time at the Metroplitian Tabernacle . Within a few days there was a Bible Conference in which several speakers spoke on the doctrine(s) of grace . The following is just the beginning of Spurgeon's address .

    There is nothing upon which men need to be more instructed than upon the question of what Calvinism really is . The most infamous allegations have been brought against us , and sometimes , I must fear , by men who knew them to be utterly untrue ; and , to this day , there are many of our opponents , who when they run short of matter , invent and make for themselves a man of straw , call that John Calvin , and then shoot all their arrows at it . We are not come here to defend your man of straw -- shoot at it or burn it as you will , and , if it suits your convenience , still oppose doctrines which were never taught , and rail at fictions which , save in your brain , were never in existence . We come here to state what our views really are , and we trust that any who do not agree with us will do us the justice of not misrepresenting us . If they can disprove our doctrines , let them state them fairly and then overthrow them , but why should they first caricature our opinions and then afterwards attempt to put them down ?
     
    #1 Rippon, Mar 5, 2006
  2. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    I could care less what Calvin taught. Instead I find it much more important to understand God through scripture--His word. Even Calvin stated in his Institutes that if taken too far one could get into trouble with his theology.

    Why should I care about Calvin's word when I have God's word?

    [ March 05, 2006, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: gb93433 ]
     
    #2 gb93433, Mar 5, 2006
  3. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    If you could care less means you have the capacity to care more . Besides , Calvinism , otherwise known as the doctrine of grace or the Reformed understanding of Scripture ,is indeed what matters . And where did Calvin state in his Institutes " that if taken too far one could get in trouble with his theology " ? His constant refrain was not to go beyond Scripture -- to refrain from speculation .
     
    #3 Rippon, Mar 5, 2006
  4. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    I don't have the books with me but if I remember right it was in the beginning of Vol. 1

    Take a look at the proclamation he made about the social structure on earth he promoted. Rather close to the Taliban idea.

    The reformed understanding is wrong. The biblical understanding has always been right. It is man who has erred. Even Pope Calvin (as some would have us to believe was infallible ex cathedra) was a pedobaptist and erred.
     
    #4 gb93433, Mar 5, 2006
  5. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    And who would have us believe that Calvin was right about all matters ? I am a Baptist . Of couse he was wrong on baptism . He was uncharacteristically off on that subject but the mode he admitted was originally immersion . It was also exceptional for him not to use much Scripture in his reasoning on that subject . That stands as a stark contrast with his writings on so many other teachings regarding the Word of God . He usually stayed very close to the text .
     
    #5 Rippon, Mar 5, 2006
  6. Calvibaptist

    Calvibaptist New Member

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    I could care less what Calvin taught. Instead I find it much more important to understand God through scripture--His word. Even Calvin stated in his Institutes that if taken too far one could get into trouble with his theology.

    Why should I care about Calvin's word when I have God's word?     </font>[/QUOTE]You know, I keep hearing this refrain over and over from those who don't believe in Calvinism. And I actually agree with you, to a point. I became a Calvinist, not by reading Calvin, but by reading the Scripture. BUT, to refuse to interact with what holy men throughout church history have said smacks of spiritual and generational pride. It is as if the world began the day we were born. Read the great men of church history. See how they interpreted the Scripture. You might learn something.

    BTW, I have read Arminius and Wesley. Both were holy men who desired to truly understand God's Word. I disagree with some of what they had to say and I agree with some as well. I don't agree with everything Calvin said, either. To this day, I'm not sure I agree with his view of eschatology. I know I don't agree with his view of baptism. But on the nature of man and the nature of salvation, IMO he is right on.
     
    #6 Calvibaptist, Mar 6, 2006
  7. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill New Member

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    Well said by Spurgeon.Whether Calvin,Wesley,or Arminius, I find none of thier books in the Bible which tells me thier word is the word of men not inspired by God.These are imperfect men with faults and thier are faults in thier writings.
    I think if we are really honest with ourselves we agree with all of these men on certain parts of thier writings and disagree on others.We tend to draw our line in the sand to quickly and easily.I would rather be known as a biblicist and learn from all of the good orthodox writers,keeping the good throwing out the bad.These men gave God the best they had along with Henry,Gill,Barnes,Chafer,Walvoord,and Ryrie.The one thing I know for sure is that my theology will be perfect when I get to heaven and am with my Lord.
     
    #7 Plain Old Bill, Mar 6, 2006
  8. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    GB: You're doing the very thing Spurgeon was warning against: you've set up this straw man, "Calvin's word", in order to divert the conversation from the actual topic.

    From the OP: Spurgeon: "who when they run short of matter , invent and make for themselves a man of straw , call that John Calvin , and then shoot all their arrows at it".

    And I find it interesting that you could care less about what Calvin says but you can readily quote from his book. Now I will readily admit that I DO care what Calvin said, but I have never read from his book. We all know that we who read "just the Bible" are more spiritual, like those in Corinth that didn't follow Peter or Paul or Appolos, but they followed "Christ", so superior were they to others. (there's sarcasm in there in case you don't see it)

    J.D.
     
    #8 J.D., Mar 6, 2006
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