Mitt Romney, caught on video tape

[Crabtownboy]

I understand that Romney was saying what his supporters wanted to hear ... but his comments had little to do with the truth as fact check shows. If the average folk in the Deep South did not support him he would not win any of those states.

Romney appears to conflate a few things — Obama’s approval rating, the percentage of people who do not pay income taxes and people who rely on government assistance.

There may be some overlap between these groups but they really are not the same thing.

First, let’s start with the notion that nearly half of Americans do not pay income tax. This is one of these “facts” that is not very informative. “Income taxes” are just one type of tax that people pay, and for most working Americans, payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare far exceed what they pay in income taxes. Moreover, if some people do not pay income taxes, it is because of policies often advocated by Republicans.

Some 44 percent of those who do not pay income taxes are because they benefit from tax benefits aimed at the elderly, while another 30 percent benefit from tax credits for children or for the working poor, according to a paper published by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.

But not all of these people are automatically Obama supporters. In fact, according to a map published by the Tax Foundation, eight of the top ten states with the lowest income-tax liability are the heart of Romney country — the deep south. The only exceptions are Florida, a battleground state, and New Mexico, which leans toward Obama. Meanwhile, most of the states with the lowest level of nonpayers are Obama states.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...012f-11e2-b257-e1c2b3548a4a_blog.html?hpid=z2

Here is one written response:

My husband and I are part of the 47% who will vote for Obama. We "built it" - a software business, created 25 high tech jobs, sold software to other countries, helping US balance of trade. We and employees paid a LOT of taxes. Husband is a vet, I paid back all student loans, have never been on welfare. Raised 3 children who also pay high taxes. We would be GOP but lost its way after Reagan's first term. Republican politicians now puppets of wealthy white men - let's not also give them power!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePKEEJxBKd4

 

[Salty]

The problem is that Romney is correct. Why would a person want to vote for a President who would take away his "give-me-beause-you-owe-me" programs.

And earned benefits such as goverment retirement need to be revamped. it's nice - but such generous progams will bankup the US and or States/Commonwelths even further.
I am not saying they should be cut out, but they are far to generous.

Was talking to a lady the other day, as a retired public school teacher, she makes over $3,000 - per month. Thats more than some people make working 40+ hours per week.
(+ she also gets social security)

 

[Crabtownboy]

The problem is that Romney is correct. Why would a person want to vote for a President who would take away his "give-me-beause-you-owe-me" programs.

Some people, and even some Christians believe that it is good to help those in need, even though some will abuse the system.

For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home.

And some, even some Christians would rather have their tax money go to help other Americans than to have their tax dollars kill people in other countries.

And earned benefits such as goverment retirement need to be revamped. it's nice - but such generous progams will bankup the US and or States/Commonwelths even further.
I am not saying they should be cut out, but they are far to generous.

Was talking to a lady the other day, as a retired public school teacher, she makes over $3,000 - per month. Thats more than some people make working 40+ hours per week.
(+ she also gets social security)

And you begrudge her having a comfortable life?

 

[Mexdeaf]

Unlike Obama, Romney is not backing off his words.

And he is correct in what he said, however inelegantly stated. It is not the job of the government to help the poor.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/...s-were-not-elegantly-032830339--election.html

 

[Bob Alkire]

Some people, and even some Christians believe that it is good to help those in need, even though some will abuse the system.

Many do, with their own money and bring many into their home to live for a while. If they abuse what I've given, I'll cut them off from my help. I just don't care for the government doing it.

And you begrudge her having a comfortable life?

Care about the children? I think it is more about how much they can get, pay, health care, retirement and so on.

 

[targus]

Funny stuff - the OP that is...

The first thing that the supposed "fact checker" has to do to make his case is redifine "federal income taxes". :laugh:

 

[LadyEagle]

Hmmm. Wonder what all these people getting freebies (and these government handouts don't include SS and Medicare), will do when the money and the freebies run out during obama's second term? Wonder how they'll feel about granny or themselves being denied care because they are old or smoke, are overweight, mentally ill, drink, etc.??? Maybe the government will deny them care because they are "unfit" like they did in Nazi Germany. Perhaps the government will deny them care because they are stupid.


Report just out: During the obama administration 3.5 million people have signed up for Social Security Disability benefits and 1/4 of those are illegitimate claims, not being reviewed properly. Can we say FRAUD? No wonder they will vote for obama!

 

[preachinjesus]

Game set, match.

He just couldn't keep his mouth shut. A stunning example of how bad a candidate he is when a half-drunk, womanizing pervert could have won in November.

After a week of news that should shred the approval rating of any incumbent, Romney still manages to not make two talking points stick.

This is why politics is simultaneously the most idiotic and revealing thing in our society.

 

[LadyEagle]

Romney is going to lose - he just isn't strong enough, not hard hitting enough, and is being ill advised, perhaps on purpose, who knows. The campaign is being run like old time politics and it just isn't going to work. Not now in the age of instant media and 24 hour news cycles. With 1/2 of the electorate on the government dole, he doesn't stand a chance. Nazi Germany, here we come.

 

[targus]

This is why politics is simultaneously the most idiotic and revealing thing in our society.

Your analysis is most political. :laugh:

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Some people do their giving with other people's money.

 

[InTheLight]

After a week of news that should shred the approval rating of any incumbent, Romney still manages to not make two talking points stick.

The foreign press is all over the story that Libya warned the U.S. of the upcoming attack on the U.S. embassy. That's not getting much play here at home, instead the media has ganged up on Romney for issuing a statement critical of Obama's response. Meanwhile the U.S. ambassador to the U.N. flat out lies and says the attack was spontaneous and the U.S. press does nothing to challenge her.

Then this tape recording of Romney miraculously appears.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Just the facts:

http://www.forextv.com/forex-news-story/mitt-romney-video-is-straight-talk-no-apologies-transcript

 

[Crabtownboy]

How do we know that Romney is not in the group that paid no taxes?

Why does he fault people who legally pay no taxes because of low salaries. Why does he vilify them as irresponsible?

 

[Crabtownboy]

Many fallacies mark Romney’s depiction of the 47%

So Romney includes people who will vote for him as in the irresponsible group. Eight of the ten poorest states went for McCain in 2008. So he is insulting one of his most important pool of people who probably will vote for HIM.

Even conservative writers see the fallacy of Mitt's comment.

Yeah, those seniors who worked hard but now freeload on Social Security and Medicare are now irresponsible. Nice thanks to them for years of hard work Mitt.

Romney’s statistic accurately approximates the percentage of US households that do not pay federal income taxes. But he went on to suggest that this 47 percent relies on government help and refuses to “take personal responsibility” — an assertion that ignores the fact that most of these households pay payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare and some are service members in combat zones.

Almost every American adult pays some combination of excise, property, sales, and state or local income taxes.

And contrary to Romney’s assertion that these are “people who will vote for the president no matter what,” many Americans who pay no federal income taxes are members of important Republican voting blocs — including seniors and residents of the Bible Belt.

“It’s empirically not accurate,” said John G. Geer, a political science professor at Vanderbilt University. “There are plenty of people who don’t pay federal income taxes who will support him, but he was trying to appeal to the folks in the room.”

Research by the nonpartisan Tax Foundation showed that in 2008, the states with the highest percentages of tax filers who did not pay federal income taxes were Mississippi, Arkansas, Georgia, Alabama, South Carolina, New Mexico, Florida, Idaho, Louisiana, and Texas. Obama won Florida and New Mexico but lost the other eight.

“Romney seems to have contempt not just for the Democrats who oppose him, but for tens of millions who intend to vote for him,” William Kristol, editor of the conservative Weekly Standard, wrote in a blog post Tuesday.

http://www.boston.com/politicalintelligence/2012/09/18/mitt-romney-description-americans-who-pay-federal-income-taxes-doesn-fit/xFeF7sVvBOWZKBmlHKLkRK/story.html

 

[Crabtownboy]

Romney's Greatest Deception

The tax code actually shifts wealth from the poor to the rich ... not the opposite as Romney claims.

But when we step back and look at overall federal spending on housing, it becomes clear that the federal government spends a lot more money subsidizing housing for the rich than for the poor. In fact, the federal government collects taxes from the poor and then re-allocates those funds as housing subsidies for the rich. How does this work?

To understand how this particular mechanism as well as the tax system more broadly funnels money from the poor to the rich, it's first necessary to point out that when the federal government decides to spend $1 dollar, that is exactly the same as a decision not to collect $1 dollar in taxes. From the point of view of the federal budget, both decisions cost $1 dollar. The first is a direct expenditure and the second is a tax expenditure. But aside from having different names, they are the same.

Now consider the home mortgage interest deduction, a tax expenditure that costs the federal treasury approximately $130 billion per year. According to the Atlantic, 75% of this tax expenditure is given to the top 20% of income earners. What this means is that the federal government spends almost $100 billion per year subsidizing large homes for upper middle class and wealthy people. Middle-class people get a tiny piece of this pie. Poor people get nothing.

But where does the government get $100 billion to pay for this tax expenditure for the rich? From mostly-poor renters of course, in other words tax payers who receive zero mortgage interest deduction. The home mortgage interest deduction is simply a transfer of wealth from mostly poor renters to mostly well-off home-owners.

And that isn't an isolated program, as Republicans have been gaming the tax system for years to enable just such maneuvers. One of Ronald Reagan's great successes entailed cutting marginal tax rates on the rich, and then using social security taxes, which are paid disproportionately by low and middle income earners, to subsidize the budget hole caused by his tax breaks for the wealthy.

So when Governor Romney said that 47% of Americans are irresponsible and simply want handouts, he was tapping into and in fact reinforcing the public's ignorance of the federal tax system as a cash cow that transfers a lot more money from the poor to the rich than the other way around. To frame poor people who require health care as free-riders while giving a free pass to rich people who demand tax cuts (tax expenditures) is a sleight of hand. I wonder if Romney understands the deception or not.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/aaron-belkin/romneys-greatest-deceptio_b_1895669.html

 

[Don]

(yawn) ....

 

[targus]

Great example of "lib-think"....

The 53% who pay taxes are stealing money form the 43% who don't pay taxes. :laugh:

 

[Salty]

The tax code actually shifts wealth from the poor to the rich ... not the opposite as Romney claims.

From the article that Crab quoted: "for this tax expenditure for the rich" A tax CREDIT is NOT a TAX expenditue.

Lets make it very simple. Suppose a person would owe $10 in taxes without figuring his home intrest credit. Now figuring in his tax credit - lets say it would be $15 he would NOT get $5 back from the govt - it would only zero out his taxes.
(unlike the earned income credit, where many get back more money that was deducted from their income)

A tax expenditue is money that is spent from available funds. The govt is not spending any extra money. IT simply is not collecting extra taxes - (from someone who probably is paying a whole bunch to begin with)

 

[Crabtownboy]

A tax expenditue is money that is spent from available funds. The govt is not spending any extra money. IT simply is not collecting extra taxes - (from someone who probably is paying a whole bunch to begin with)

You miss the point and prove the last paragraph.

So when Governor Romney said that 47% of Americans are irresponsible and simply want handouts, he was tapping into and in fact reinforcing the public's ignorance of the federal tax system as a cash cow that transfers a lot more money from the poor to the rich than the other way around. To frame poor people who require health care as free-riders while giving a free pass to rich people who demand tax cuts (tax expenditures) is a sleight of hand.