Modern worship in church = apostasy?

[xdisciplex]

Does this mean that catchy beats are bad because they are carnal?
I have heard these arguments before that certain beats change the brain waves.
But this would mean that drums and everything which has to do with it are evil. Bass guitars would also be evil. I bet that this fits right into the agenda of all christians which don't like rock music anyway. Most likely they always hated the "noise" and now they also have some arguments to condemn this evil music....

@ DQuixote

Do old worship songs not also repeat the same stuff over and over again?

At least in the charismatic church where I went a few times they were singing the same verse over and over and over again it was already hypnotic and they psyched themselves up. Later somebody talked about the worship and said that the repeating of the verses was good and brought more anointing....
I don't know if this really was an anointing or not simply emotions.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Does this mean that catchy beats are bad because they are carnal?
I have heard these arguments before that certain beats change the brain waves.
But this would mean that drums and everything which has to do with it are evil. Bass guitars would also be evil. I bet that this fits right into the agenda of all christians which don't like rock music anyway. Most likely they always hated the "noise" and now they also have some arguments to condemn this evil music....

This is a presumptuous statement. My flesh loved rock and roll. I had a collection of music that included Metallica, Megadeth, Pantera and I had every CD that Rush ever released saved for one or two live albums. I eventually added "Christian Rock" like POD, and Newsboys. I have been to about 20 secular rock concerts in my life and around 10 "Christian Rock" concerts. My flesh loved rock music and if I allowed myself to have an appetite for it again, I bet my flesh would love it today. However, rock and roll wars with the spirit and it is opposed to the word of God. Thus, today I listen to psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs as scripture declares but I never had an agenda and I was not one who didn't like rock music anyway.

Do old worship songs not also repeat the same stuff over and over again?

At least in the charismatic church where I went a few times they were singing the same verse over and over and over again it was already hypnotic and they psyched themselves up. Later somebody talked about the worship and said that the repeating of the verses was good and brought more anointing....
I don't know if this really was an anointing or not simply emotions.

No. Hymns do not repeat the same stuff over and over again. Atleast, not in the way that you are describing. Most hymns have 3 or more verses and are far more God praising and Jesus Christ confessing than most of the contempo stuff. I would warn against anything repetitive including repetitive prayers and repetitive music and I would certainly warn against rock and roll.

 

[xdisciplex]

How exactly do you know that rock wars with the spirit?

Are you saying that all christian rockers are deceived and those christians which like rock are deceived, too?
I think that people are being reached by christian rock bands. How can this be negative? I think that this limits God. I listened to Creed before I became a christian and it affected me and Creed isn't even a christian band but their singer is and he also sang about spiritual things. I really don't think that God is so fussy that he wouldn't use these things.

 

[Amy.G]

My flesh loved rock and roll. I had a collection of music that included Metallica, Megadeth, Pantera and I had every CD that Rush ever released saved for one or two live albums. I eventually added "Christian Rock" like POD, and Newsboys. I have been to about 20 secular rock concerts in my life and around 10 "Christian Rock" concerts. My flesh loved rock music and if I allowed myself to have an appetite for it again, I bet my flesh would love it today. However, rock and roll wars with the spirit and it is opposed to the word of God.

Wow. Heavy metal and rock are two very different types of music. What was it about Christian rock that was warring with your spirit? I love CCM and have many cd's. Some of the songs bring tears to my eyes. We have traditional music at church along with bluegrass gospel. :flower:

 

[annsni]

What's wrong with saying the same thing over and over again? Do you think God gets tired of hearing His praises??

Rev. 4:8

And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all around and within, and day and night they never cease to say,

"Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty,
who was and is and is to come!"

 

[Rufus_1611]

How exactly do you know that rock wars with the spirit?

Because I know first hand what it is like to be under the influence of it and I know what it is like to be free of it. Because there is a secret power of music that contemporary folks don't understand and ancient civilizations did. Because God says to sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. etc.

Are you saying that all christian rockers are deceived and those christians which like rock are deceived, too?

Yes.

I think that people are being reached by christian rock bands. How can this be negative? I think that this limits God. I listened to Creed before I became a christian and it affected me and Creed isn't even a christian band but their singer is and he also sang about spiritual things. I really don't think that God is so fussy that he wouldn't use these things.

There's another good band. My wife and I used to listen to them during trips to Flagstaff, AZ and it was great travelling music on the way to a beautiful city. I digress...Scott Stapp is the former lead singer of Creed that I believe you are referring to as being a Christian. Now you'll have to use your own discernment but in my worldview, an individual who parties with Kidd Rock and fornicates on video with a bunch of groupies, and then sues people for releasing the video is not necessarily a God fearing Christian.

If you're still listening to this kind of music, just for giggles, give it up for 30 days and see how it transforms your life.

 

[annsni]

Rufus -

I understand you're being against Christian Rock. I've found that those who struggled with something before they were saved are the most outspoken against what they used to be 'into'. However, not all of the contemporary Christian music - rock, metal, rap, pop, worship, etc. - is bad. I agree that there is some that is not good and, honestly, I usually don't get 'into' a group or singer until I know something more about them personally. There was once a very good Christian group that was supposed to come do a small festival that our church ran and the guys were complete idiots. They TOTALLY blew their testimony in the snotty way that they treated us - VERY worldly and NOT what they were putting forth on stage. On the other hand, I know a number of artists who ARE what they put forth on stage - and then some. We had Charlie Hall (a worship writer/singer) come to our church to do a thing for the college aged people in the area (he's part of a group of artists who have a heart for the college age/young people) and he is SUCH an awesome person. My husband was recovering from a bad fall off of our roof with a resulting crushed foot (he had just had the pins removed from his foot after 3 months) and he stopped ALL preparation of the concert to sit my husband down and have the band members and the other believers who were involved in this whole thing lay hands on him and pray for him. They spent a full 45 minutes in prayer - and made the concert/seminar start 30 minutes late. He then led us in a most amazing time of worship that I'll never forget. I SO felt the presence of the Spirit there amongst those hundreds of college students. My husband has been to where they do their large concert/conferences and he said it gives him a glimpse of what heaven will be like - tens of thousands just praising the Lord together with voices, faces and hands raised to Him.

So, while I understand you not liking it personally - since it apparently brings you back to a time in your life before the Lord - it doesn't mean that GOD says it's wrong. Don't listen to it if you don't want to - that's fine. Just don't give a blanket statement on something that God didn't give a blanket statement to.

 

[Rufus_1611]

So, while I understand you not liking it personally - since it apparently brings you back to a time in your life before the Lord - it doesn't mean that GOD says it's wrong. Don't listen to it if you don't want to - that's fine. Just don't give a blanket statement on something that God didn't give a blanket statement to.

Rock and roll is darkness and there is no mixing darkness with light. I will give blanket statements on my beliefs as there is enough to demonstrate to me that God says to sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs and he doesn't say to take that which has an evil root, mix it with some nice words and call it good. You don't have to believe it, you can believe that I'm wrong, but I'm not going to not share my beliefs.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Rufus 1611: // Rock and roll is darkness and there
is no mixing darkness with light.//

I believe the Rock: Messiah Jesus - this has put me on heaven's roll!

Which part of my Rock & roll is darkness?

 

[Claudia_T]

Yeah and if there's a Rock and Roll Heaven they're gonna have a Hell of a Band

 

[xdisciplex]

Rock and roll is darkness and there is no mixing darkness with light.

Which kind of music is not darkness according to you?
When does music become dark? Is it because of the distorted guitars? Or what makes rock evil?

Scott Stapp is the former lead singer of Creed that I believe you are referring to as being a Christian. Now you'll have to use your own discernment but in my worldview, an individual who parties with Kidd Rock and fornicates on video with a bunch of groupies, and then sues people for releasing the video is not necessarily a God fearing Christian.

Sure, what he did was sinful and really awkward but this doesn't mean that he can impossibly be a christian.

Check out this christian power-metal band. The music is not simple or primitive, it's bombastic.
I don't see why this music cannot also honor God.

http://www.theocracymusic.com/discography.php

 

[Ed Edwards]

If I ever start a Rock & Roll Band -- I'm going to call it:

Daniel & The Lion's Din! :thumbs:

 

[Rufus_1611]

Which kind of music is not darkness according to you?
When does music become dark? Is it because of the distorted guitars? Or what makes rock evil?

Sure, what he did was sinful and really awkward but this doesn't mean that he can impossibly be a christian.

Really awkward? Dude is engaging in recorded orgies and that's just the really bad stuff. At best he's a Catholic as he walks together with Mel Gibson and The Passion of the Christ music. If you find a statement of repentance from Mr. Stapp send me the link and we'll talk. Otherwise, I don't think he is what he says he is.

Check out this christian power-metal band. The music is not simple or primitive, it's bombastic.
I don't see why this music cannot also honor God.

http://www.theocracymusic.com/discography.php

If you ever separate from it, you just might.

 

[xdisciplex]

Okay, I think this is pretty senseless.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Here are the Sunday Morning Worshilp times/types of
CrossPointe, of Norman, Oklahoma -- the former
First Free Will Baptist Church of Norman, Oklahoma.

see: http://www.crosspointe.ws/index.php?&MMN_position=1:1

Vintage begins at 8:30am and is fit for those
who love country/bluegrass.

Modern begins at 10:00am and will give you
a fresh taste of Christian music today.

Overdrive begins at 11:30am and is not
for the faint of heart. Prepare to take your
worship to the next level.

All three get the same sermon from the Lead Pastor.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

I recommend reading the book, The Music of Jubal, for a better understanding of spiritual vs sensual music.

 

[Rufus_1611]

I recommend reading the book, The Music of Jubal, for a better understanding of spiritual vs sensual music.

Author?...

 

[Rufus_1611]

Okay, I think this is pretty senseless.

"This" would be?

 

[Rufus_1611]

Here are the Sunday Morning Worshilp times/types of
CrossPointe, of Norman, Oklahoma -- the former
First Free Will Baptist Church of Norman, Oklahoma.

see: http://www.crosspointe.ws/index.php?&MMN_position=1:1

Vintage begins at 8:30am and is fit for those
who love country/bluegrass.

Modern begins at 10:00am and will give you
a fresh taste of Christian music today.

Overdrive begins at 11:30am and is not
for the faint of heart. Prepare to take your
worship to the next level.

All three get the same sermon from the Lead Pastor.

When the "Vintage" generation dies off do you suppose they will have modern, overdrive and maximum overdrive?

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Author?...

I will have to get back to you on that. I will have to search through my books to find it and I'm not supposed to be off the couch for a few days per doctor's orders.

It's not a very large book and it is has a soft cover. I can see it in my mind, but cannot recall the name right now. Sorry.

I will look for it and get back to you though.