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Featured Monergism/Synergism

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Iconoclast, Jul 19, 2020.

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  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Found this on Monergism.com

    Objection: The terms "monergism" and "synergism" ain't in the Bible

    Visitor:
    The terms "monergism" and "synergism" ain't in the Bible. The Bible is an invitation to man, he has the free-will choice to either accept or reject. (Isa. 45:22; Jn. 3:19; Rev. 22:17). Frame it as the Bible does or not at all. God does not save by fiat. That's what monergism means.

    Response
    The concept of "free will" is not found in the bible. So your argument is self defeating. We affirm that the gospel is to be proclaimed indiscriminately to all people. God does not hold anyone back from believing. Their rejection of Christ is because men love darkness, hate the light and will not come into the light (john 3:19). To claim man has a free will assumes the unbiblical idea that fallen man is willing to come to Christ apart from the Holy Spirit. But no one can say Jesus is Lord apart from the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:3) so we cannot ascribe our faith and repentance (even partly) to our own humility, wisdom, good intentions, or sound judgment but to grace.

    Jesus declared, "the Spirit quickens, the flesh counts for nothing...that is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me grants it" John 6:63, 65

    And if no one comes to faith in Christ unless God grants it then no one by their natural free will ever comes to him.

    The Apostle Paul said, "we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God." 1 Cor 1:23-24

    The call of the gospel is universal but, according to Paul, all men reject it (folly, stumbling block) but to those among them who are called by God, the power and wisdom of God.

    Monergism does not mean people are saved simply because they are elect. Election by itself saves no one. People are saved by the gospel of Jesus Christ. We cast the seed of the gospel indiscriminately but only God can take it from their ears to their heart. Only God can disarm mens hostility, open their blind eyes, unplug their deaf ears and turn their heart of stone to a heart of flesh. That is called mercy.

    You teach that salvation depends on human will, but the Bible teaches (and I quote) 'it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy." (Rom 9:16)

    Yes we all agree that God commands us to trust in the gospel of Jesus Christ. But a command does not presuppose a willingness on our part. That is something you are adding to the scripture that simply isn't there. So the concept of monergism (salvation by grace alone) is there clearly taught in the scripture, but free will isn't anywhere to be found. We do indeed have a will ... and TO WILL is something we all do naturally, but to will ARIGHT is by grace, and grace alone.

    ----

    Note: the word "monergism" is from "mono" which means "one" and "ergon" which means "work". In other words, salvation is of the Lord... it is His work, not ours. Nothing could be more biblical.

    Objection: The terms "monergism" and "synergism" ain't in the Bible | Monergism
     
    #1 Iconoclast, Jul 19, 2020
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  2. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    I've always been a bit unique on this, but based on Romans 4, I'm a Monergist and believe it's compatible with some Arminian thinking.

    The key is the term accounted, or reckoned, which is 100% of God.

    IOWs, it's not about the faith or where it comes from, but accounting of that faith. Only God can account something is righteous, therefore he gets 100% of the credit for man's salvation.

    Thus, there is no need for him to cause our faith.

    Rom. 45 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.​
     
    #2 Calminian, Jul 19, 2020
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  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Based on Romans 10:17-18, Psalms 19:4 God is the ultimate bases of all truth by which all men have some kind of faith. God holds man responcible for what truth is refused to be believed. (Noting also, John 1:3; John 14:6, Romans 1:18.)
     
    #3 37818, Jul 19, 2020
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    While I am not Arminian, you are right that monegrism is compatible with Armianian theology. We also have to remember that these are not the only two alternatives when it comes to God's work of salvation. While we like things cut and dry, black and white, very often God does not fit into our designs. Sometimes the Bible offers a "yes, yes" to our "yes/ no" or "no/ yes" questions.
     
    #4 JonC, Jul 19, 2020
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  5. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    As one without a specific label for my view, I agree.
     
    #5 Calminian, Jul 19, 2020
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  6. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    I agree. I would say even our faith must be laid at God's feet with gratitude.

    But the word for counted, reckoned, etc. (logizomai) is where I put the emphasis regarding our salvation. There is essentially no difference between believers and unbelievers, apart from God's choice to count one of them as righteous. That choice is 100% a monergistic act of God. He was under no obligation to credit anyone's faith.
     
    #6 Calminian, Jul 19, 2020
  7. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    I believe a deeper issue is post redemption when Paul answered the question of if the law of Moses is no longer the rule of life for the believers then how are they to live out their lives on earth? Galatians 5 states that it is the fruit of the newborn human spirit that produces the fruit of the spirit small s. Our spirit like Adam was created holy and righteous but was dead in Adam’s sin and our bodies carried our spirit around like a corpse. Once regeneration happened we became alive to God and are indwelled by the Holy Spirit to produce works of love. However, the fact that Paul teaches that the newborn human spirit has the characteristics of the fruit mentioned, to me indicates an understanding of the enabling from God that allowed my life to choose his grace.
     
    #7 Sai, Jul 19, 2020
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  8. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Those who deny Adam died spiritually at the time of the fall and the results of that lead to.confusion.
     
    #8 Iconoclast, Jul 20, 2020
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  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Faith does not merit salvation. But without faith one cannot know anything.
     
    #9 37818, Jul 20, 2020
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  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    This may be true. But at the same time we have to remember that simplicity is not necessarily the criteria of truth. Sometimes what is true does not fit within one’s traditions or expectations.

    The reason that a denial that Adam “died spiritually” is within orthodox Christianity is because the Bible nowhere says that Adam died spiritually, the Hebrew religion did not teach that Adam died spiritually, first century Judaism did not believe that Adam died spiritually, there are no early church teachings saying that Adam died spiritually, and Christianity as a whole does not hold that Adam died spiritually.

    So we have to understand that there are other positions on this topic. Since it is not in the Bible we have to extend grace to those who would disagree with that interpretation.

    But we cannot reject a doctrine just because it could lead to confusion. Scripture has to be the criteria - not how we work out Scripture, not our tradition, not even our belief.
     
    #10 JonC, Jul 20, 2020
  11. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Could you kindly define precisely what you mean by "died spiritually"?
     
    #11 Calminian, Jul 20, 2020
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Was "spiritually alive", ate the fruit, no longer had "spiritual life".
     
    #12 JonC, Jul 20, 2020
  13. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    And can you then explain what you mean by spiritually alive?

    I ask, because every time I've had this discussion, it's always come down to a disagreement of terms. I can define for you what I mean by spiritual death, but perhaps it would be better if you explain what it means to you.
     
    #13 Calminian, Jul 20, 2020
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Good point. A large percent of disagreements are because of terms and definitions.

    Typically “spiritual life” is defined as the life of the Holy Spirit dwelling in a person, or being “born of the Spirit”.

    Scripture uses two terms – the flesh and the spirit. One either lives by the flesh and not the spirit, or by the spirit and not the flesh.

    The only biblical way of looking at Adam spiritually dying is that Adam was living by the spirit and sinned (a failure of God). From that point on Adam lived by the flesh. Until Adam was saved (assuming he was) then he lived by the Spirit again.
     
    #14 JonC, Jul 20, 2020
  15. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    So this would seem to be where the disagreement lies. I define spiritual life as a communal relationship with God. Spiritual death is the separation in this sense from God. God no longer walks with us, as he did with Adam. We don't commune with him the way we did before Adam's sin separated us.

    Christ has bridged the gap, and restored this relationship. This is spiritual life. Glorification will be the completion of this restoration. Those without Christ will suffer permanent separation from God, or permanent spiritual death.

    And I believe the Jews understood this concept.

    Is. 59:2 But your iniquities have separated
    you from your God;
    your sins have hidden his face from you,
    so that he will not hear.​
     
    #15 Calminian, Jul 20, 2020
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  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yes. That is where we disagree.

    But where we do agree is that Adam's sin formed a break in this relationship. So we are not so far apart (although definitions can still be an obstacle).
     
    #16 JonC, Jul 20, 2020
  17. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    If I tell my child to clean his room I expect him to be able , otherwise I would not tell him .
     
    #17 Barry Johnson, Jul 21, 2020
  18. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    who teaches salvation is dependent on our will ? I think you may be confused ..God says it pleases him to save those that believe. It really is that simple . All these ' isms' are just emotional baggage that distracts from the text .
     
    #18 Barry Johnson, Jul 21, 2020
  19. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    We should not start with ' free will ' or ' sovereignty ' we should start with scriptural authority.
     
    #19 Barry Johnson, Jul 21, 2020
  20. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    I believe the mistake Calvernists and some Armins make is falling for the idea that Faith is a work . The bible does not define faith as a work .
     
    #20 Barry Johnson, Jul 21, 2020
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