More Seventh-Day Adventists

[DHK]

Rv:11:19: And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.


Revelation 14:
6: And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7: Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
12: Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


Exodus 20:
8: Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9: Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

What has that got to do with the demonic vision that White had? The false prophets in Jehoshophat's day all had good visions too. The one that prophesied truly was Micaiah. But his prophecy was bad news to Ahab.

 

[DHK]

DHK
Other women are permitted to speak on this Board and give their opinions, why not me?

I didn't mean to say you weren't permitted to speak on BB. The board was set up for discussion/debate and fellowship. Besides that, I, in no way, will consider you my teacher. :tongue3:

I certainly do pay attention actually to that part of scripture but honestly I am not completely sure how to take it. I dont believe its a "cultural" thing like alot of people claim. I am not entirely sure yet about the idea that it just applies to women in church.

I assume you are referring to this verse:

1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
--It means just what it says--that in the church a woman cannot teach a man. She cannot hold any position of authority over a man. What can she do then? She can teach children and other women. We would never have a lady teaching the Adult Sunday School Class or a woman pastor. But teaching children and women is fine. They are not to instruct men.
They are to keep silence in the church. The church is not and never has referred to a building. The church is the people. When writing to the church in Corinth, there was no building. He was writing to the believers in Corinth. Thus when the believers gathered together to worship, in the service women were not permitted to speak. That was the work of a pastor, evangelist, teacher, or prophet--all of whom were men.
A woman could not exercise authority over a man, nor teach a man. This statement in itself would prohibit a woman from being a prophetess in the church.

But regardless, I also view the role of prophet as something different than that because the Bible gives cases of women prophets, like Deborah and others, right?

Not true. You can't insert examples from the OT into this present church age. This is one of the failures of the SDA's. They keep reverting back to the OT, in order to prove their doctrine. But we don't live in the OT dispensation. Things have changed since then. They looked forward to the cross; we look back to the cross. Their sacrifices pre-figured the cross. We look back on the One Sacrifice that paid the penalty for our sins for all time. The OT has nothing to do with it.

But if I remember right, you dont view the gift of prophecy as being still in need in our day.

No I don't. Just as Bob doesn't consider tongues for today, I don't believe that prophecy is for today either. That would be consistent with 1Cor.13:8, where we are told that all three will cease:

1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
--As these three have ceased, I believe that they all (spiritual gifts) have ceased, and that they ceased by the end of the first century. Thus it was impossible for Ellen G. White to have been a prophet in any Scriptural form anyway.

As far as the women speaking in church goes, (back to that again) I so far at least, view that as women not being Pastors.

In 1 Cor.14, Paul was not addressing pastors, nor the subject of pastors. He was addressing women, specifically women who were speaking out in the church service. They were to be silent. And he makes that point very specific--spells it out clearly in two verses. I don't see how it can be misunderstood by anyone. Women are to keep silence in the church. It means what it says. What is so difficult about those words?

I think that women as well as men can have the Holy Spirit and thus they can know what the scriptures teach just as well as any man can.

Teach children. Teach women. Yes--but not men, and that includes a mixed company such as a regular service or SS class. It doesn't matter how good a teacher you are. You are not permitted to teach a man. I didn't make the rules. God did.

But I also believe that women shouldnt be Pastors because there are always non-believers purposely trying to deceive that these Pastors have to be around and I think that Satan would try extra hard to deceive the Pastor because then through him, he could deceive the entire congregation. I bring that Bible verse in when it comes to this part, that says Eve was the one deceived. I view women as being more emotionally inclined than men are and thus more easy to deceive if someone is there right with them trying to lead them astray... like when the devil tempted Eve, he reasoned with her trying to deceive her about God.

I think a woman can write articles, books, and so on, about Religion just as well as anyone else. How could she even teach her own children if she were intellectually or spiritually inferior as a teacher? How could she be able to teach them about the scriptures? She has access to the Holy Spirit and to God.

Titus 2:3-5 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; 4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Yes, she has the Holy Spirit just like any other believer. But God has given her a different role than the man, as Titus has so aptly described it. Her main role in life is at home, and I emphasize the word "main", not "only." Yes, she needs to teach her children, teach them about the Scriptures, and so on; even as Lois and Eunice taught Timothy from his childhood upward.
But they are not teachers of men, nor do they have authority over men (in spiritual things), nor do they have permission to speak in the church (services).

If a woman doesnt have the same access to God isnt that kind of like the view of the Catholics like they think they have to have a priest interpret things for them? I hadnt ever thought of that till now but what do you think of that?
Claudia

The context is in the church. All believers are priests before God. We do not need any earthly priest. We all have the Holy Spirit. We all have access to the throne of God. That is where our theology also differs from yours and you become confused because of your view of Christ still atoning for our sins. I can go straight before the throne of God, as a priest before God. The work of his atonement is finished; it was completed at the cross. It gives me access to the throne of God. Every believer has that access. But not every believer has the same role. Not every believer can be a pastor or an evangelist. Not every believer could be one of the twelve apostles.

 

[BobRyan]

I assume you are referring to this verse:

1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
--It means just what it says--

Indeed it does - but the author did not write "in english".

the Word means "Husband". So instead of this denying the right of women to speak in church or for Priscilla to instruct Apollos or for Philip's Daughter's to be prophets in the NT church or for "EACH one in 1Cor 14" to "have a revelation" the way scripture actually says -- it means that women are not to take authority over their own husbands.

Without man-made traditions inserted into the text - it all makes sense. And all the bending and twisting that DHK had to do on those texts referenced above is not needed.


In Christ,

bob

 

[BobRyan]

You're right. I post historic facts that happened just after 1844. Most of them are from Ellen G. White herself. They are factual. Did not White have a dream of the Ten Commandments and the fourth commandment (the one about the Sabbath) was glowing brighter than all the others?

Yes but you made it appear that this came from her to the Adventists instead of Seventh-day Baptists bringing this to Adventists then other Adventists bringing this Bible study to Ellen White then LATER Ellen White having a vision that was in harmony with what they were already teaching.

It appeared you were employing revisionist history to prop up a failed scenario.

These inconvenient details keep getting deleted from your representations and accusations so that they might be better accepted by those who are not familiar with the actual facts.

An interesting form of persuasion I admit -- but not ideal for Christians.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

DHK quotes --

Near the time of the expected advent in the fall of 1844, there was also given to Hazen Foss, a young Adventist of talent, a revelation of the experience of the advent people. Shortly after the passing of the time, he was bidden to relate the vision to others, but this be disinclined to do. He was warned of God as to the consequences of failing to relate to others what had been revealed to him, and was told that if he refused, the light would be given to someone else. But he felt keenly the disappointment of 1844, and ‘said that he had been deceived.’ After a severe mental conflict, he ‘decided he would not relate the visions.’ Then, ‘very strange feelings came to him, and a voice said, ‘You have grieved away the Spirit of the Lord’ (E.G. White Letter No. 37, 1890).
‘Horrified at his stubbornness and rebellion,’ he ‘told the Lord that he would relate the vision,’ but when he attempted to do so before a company of believers, he could not call it to mind. In vain were his attempts to call up the scenes as they had been shown to him

Telling us that Foss was never in a position to put forth a vision for people to follow in any way shape or form...

But notice DHK's "source" ALSO said

2. Some of these Sabbath-keepers accepted the visions of Hazen Foss and Ellen Harmon in relation to the "Investigative Judgment" doctrine and the end-time

Pretty sad that they want to claim that Sabbath-keepers were FOLLOWING the visions of Foss whom they never heard to relate a vision.

And obviously - this is totally false -- but interesting that it constitutes DHKs "proof".

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Of the 50,000 Millerites -- 50 started the Adventist church. On Oct 23, 1844 Hiram Edson proposed the solution for the 2300 year prophetic timeline ending on Oct 22 the Day of Atonement in 1844 -- showing that this phase began at that time in the heavenly sanctuary.

The Adventists studied through this solution to see "if it was so" using a sola-scriptura method.

Your entire accusation is based on the absurd notion that these people were following a teenage young lady -- when in fact these were Bible studies that resulted in both William Miller's preaching AND in the doctrines of the Adventist church. Which makes it "real easy" for me to simply use the same model here.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Claudia_T]

Visions and Dreams

DHK

When it comes to Joel and how he talked about the "Latter Rain" and the time when the sun would turn to darkness and the moon to blood, etc...

...then he said God would pour out His Spirit upon all flesh, women would dream dreams and have visions...

How do you see that entire thing, the timing of it, I mean:


Joel:2:
23: Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
28: And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30: And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.


Just curious because Jesus also talked about the prophesy when the sun would turn to darkness and the moon to blood...

Mt:24:29: Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken

Mk:13:24: But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

Lk:21:25: And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring


...and you dont have to think that I am trying to be your teacher or that I expect you to learn anything from me. If you do it might be accidental or something like that...

Personally I believe God can use anybody to shed light upon others... and so I am willing to listen no matter who it is telling it. 1Thes:5:21: Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.


Claudia

 

[Amy.G]

When it comes to Joel and how he talked about the "Latter Rain" and the time when the sun would turn to darkness and the moon to blood, etc...

...then he said God would pour out His Spirit upon all flesh, women would dream dreams and have visions...

How do you see that entire thing, the timing of it, I mean:

Acts 2:15-21
It occured at Pentacost.

 

[Eliyahu]

Christianity is based on an important doctrine that The Redemption at the Cross was perfect and Once For All, which is quite true and evident from the Bible statements. If anyone presents an idea which contradicts this, and moreover if the vision that such person claimed failed, then the person must be treated as a Charlatan as we read Deut 18:20-22

 

[Claudia_T]

Christianity is based on an important doctrine that The Redemption at the Cross was perfect and Once For All, which is quite true and evident from the Bible statements. If anyone presents an idea which contradicts this, and moreover if the vision that such person claimed failed, then the person must be treated as a Charlatan as we read Deut 18:20-22

Eliyahu

honestly you just dont understand this at all... nobody is at all saying what you seem to think they are saying

 

[Claudia_T]

Acts 2:15-21
It occured at Pentacost.

Amy,

if you think the Latter rain occurred at Pentecost then when did the Former rain occur?


Joel:2:
23: Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
28: And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30: And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

 

[DHK]

Eliyahu

honestly you just dont understand this at all... nobody is at all saying what you seem to think they are saying

Who understands what?
First, the SDA's cannot prove that anything happened in 1843,44, or any of the other failed prophetic dates that were set.
Take a look at the prophetic passage referred to by Amy and often referred to by the SDA's

Acts 2:16-21 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
28 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The above is what is known as a "double prophecy" or two-part prophecy. It was partially fulfilled on the day of Pentecost and in the days of the Apostles, and the rest of the prophecy is yet to be fulfilled when Christ comes again.

So tell me, in 1844, were the wonders in heaven?
Were the signs in the earth beneath?
Was there blood and fire and vapor and smoke?
Was the sun turned into darkness? (was it dark during that day?)
Was the moon turned into blood (at least into the color of red)?

Did these things happen in 1844 when Christ supposedly returned?
What evidence do you have?
None!
Christ has not returned. It is a failed prophecy that you base your false religion.
It is not failed to us (only to you), for to us it is not yet fulfilled. It is yet in the future.

 

[Claudia_T]

Well I was going to try to talk to you but I think that I will use my usual policy and not.

Who understands what?
First, the SDA's cannot prove that anything happened in 1843,44, or any of the other failed prophetic dates that were set.
Take a look at the prophetic passage referred to by Amy and often referred to by the SDA's

Acts 2:16-21 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
28 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The above is what is known as a "double prophecy" or two-part prophecy. It was partially fulfilled on the day of Pentecost and in the days of the Apostles, and the rest of the prophecy is yet to be fulfilled when Christ comes again.

So tell me, in 1844, were the wonders in heaven?
Were the signs in the earth beneath?
Was there blood and fire and vapor and smoke?
Was the sun turned into darkness? (was it dark during that day?)
Was the moon turned into blood (at least into the color of red)?

Did these things happen in 1844 when Christ supposedly returned?
What evidence do you have?
None!
Christ has not returned. It is a failed prophecy that you base your false religion.
It is not failed to us (only to you), for to us it is not yet fulfilled. It is yet in the future.

 

[DHK]

Indeed it does - but the author did not write "in english".

You are right; they wrote in Greek, of which the KJV is one of most accurate translations thereof.

the Word means "Husband".

You are wrong.
The workd is aner, and it's primary meaning is simply "man." Only in very occasional situations is it translated husband. This is not one of them.

aner aner an'-ayr a primary word (compare 444); a man (properly as an individual male):--fellow, husband, man, sir. (Strong's)

So instead of this denying the right of women to speak in church or for Priscilla to instruct Apollos or for Philip's Daughter's to be prophets in the NT church or for "EACH one in 1Cor 14" to "have a revelation" the way scripture actually says -- it means that women are not to take authority over their own husbands.

You are just like the Oneness Pentecostal who used to post here. They couldn't prove their doctrine or even present the plan of salvation without the Book of Acts. A good rule of thumb is: not to take doctrine out of the Book of Acts that is not taught elsewhere. The Book of Acts is a book of history, not doctrine. It is transitional book from Judaism to full blown Christianity.
Priscilla and Aquilla are always mentioned together. So you have no evidence in that example that any woman taught Apollos.
The seven daughters of Philip prophesying were a part of the fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel, which took place in the first century. The prophetic gift ceased by the end of the first century (1Cor.13:8-13).
I have already proved you wrong that each one did not have a revelation in Corinth. The exact opposite is true. You fail to read 1Cor.12. Why? Because you don't want to know the truth perhaps? The verse says plainly that women are not to have authority over a man. It is plain--both in the Greek and in the English, and in so many other languages.

Without man-made traditions inserted into the text - it all makes sense. And all the bending and twisting that DHK had to do on those texts referenced above is not needed.

I don't twist anything, but the SDA's certainly do!

 

[Claudia_T]

Prophecy about the Sun and Moon and Stars

Prophecy about the Sun and Moon and Stars


Joel 2:
28: And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30: And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.


Matthew 24:
1: And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2: And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3: And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4: And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5: For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6: And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7: For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8: All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9: Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10: And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11: And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12: And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13: But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14: And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16: Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19: And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20: But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22: And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23: Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24: For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25: Behold, I have told you before.
26: Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27: For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28: For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29: Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


A. The Destruction of Jerusalem
Prophecy: "There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." "Let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains." Matthew 24:2, 16.
Fulfillment: Jerusalem was destroyed in A.D. 70 by the Roman warrior Titus.

B. A Great Persecution, or Tribulation
Prophecy: "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world." Matthew 24:21.
Fulfillment: This prophecy points primarily to the long period of tribulation that took place during the Dark Ages and was instigated by the apostate church. It lasted more than 1,000 years. Over 50 million Christians were slain for their faith in this terrible tribulation period. One writer says the apostate church "has shed more innocent blood than any other institution that has ever existed among mankind." W.E.H. Lecky, History of the Rise and Influence of the Spirit of Rationalism in Europe, (Reprint; New York: Braziller, 1955) Vol. 2, pp. 40-45.

C. The Sun Turned into Darkness
Prophecy: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened." Matthew 24:29.
Fulfillment: This was fulfilled by a day of supernatural darkness on May 19, 1780. It was not an eclipse. Timothy Dwight says, "The 19th of May, 1780, was a remarkable dark day. Candles were lighted in many houses; the birds were silent and disappeared, and the fowls retired to roost. ... A very general opinion prevailed, that the day of judgment was at hand." Quoted in Connecticut Historical Collections, compiled by John Warner Barber (2nd ed.; New Haven: Durrie & Peck and J.W. Barber, 1836) p. 403.

D. The Moon Turned into Blood
Prophecy: "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come." Joel 2:31.
Fulfillment: The moon became as red as blood on the night of the "dark day," May 19, 1780. Milo Bostick in Stone's History of Massachusetts says, "The moon which was at its full, had the appearance of blood."

The great star shower took place on November 13, 1833.
E. The Stars Fall from Heaven
Prophecy: "And the stars shall fall from heaven." Matthew 24:29.
Fulfillment: The great star shower took place on the night of November 13, 1833. It was so bright that a newspaper could be read on the street. One writer says, "For nearly four hours the sky was literally ablaze."* Men thought the end of the world had come. Look into this. It is most fascinating, and a sign of Christ's coming.
*Peter A. Millman, "The Falling of the Stars," The Telescope, 7 (May-June, 1940) 57.

 

[BobRyan]

You are just like the Oneness Pentecostal who used to post here. They couldn't prove their doctrine or even present the plan of salvation without the Book of Acts. A good rule of thumb is: not to take doctrine out of the Book of Acts

Is there no end to your slicing an dicing the Word into "unnacceptable chunks".

You told us not to use the SCRIPTURE of primary reference in 2Tim 3 to PROVE our doctrine on the Gospel -- the OT.

Now you tell us not to use the NT book of Acts.

Is there NO LIMIT for you DHK??

What about the words of Christ in the Gospels BEFORE the Cross?

Should we cut those words out of our Bibles as well?

What is LEFT for you??

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Quote:
Without man-made traditions inserted into the text - it all makes sense. And all the bending and twisting that DHK had to do on those texts referenced above is not needed.

DHK
I don't twist anything,

To the contrary in 1Cor 14 you argue that "EACH ONE" does not really mean to include women if it says "EACH ONE has a revelation".

In 1Cor 12 you argue that "EACH ONE" does not include women if it is a gift of prophecy.

You tell us that in Acts when we find that Philips Daughters are prophets for the NT we should simply IGNORE that as something Christians should now worry their tiny little heads about --

You toy with scripture turning it to your own usages time after time and seem to feel no remorse in doing it.

how can that really be satisfying?

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Marcia]

Is there no end to your slicing an dicing the Word into "unnacceptable chunks".

You told us not to use the SCRIPTURE of primary reference in 2Tim 3 to PROVE our doctrine on the Gospel -- the OT.

Now you tell us not to use the NT book of Acts.

Is there NO LIMIT for you DHK??

What about the words of Christ in the Gospels BEFORE the Cross?

Should we cut those words out of our Bibles as well?

What is LEFT for you??

I think DHK's point about Acts is that Acts is descriptive, not prescriptive. The Bible is not all commandments. The epistles to the early churches give the directions.

I am taking NT1 right now and this is one of the first things said by the prof (although I already knew it and I think it's fairly obvious). If you want to make Acts prescriptive, then you better be raising the dead, selling possessions, striking evil men blind (as in Acts 13), and we should be seeing people transported like Philip to the Ethiopian.

 

[DHK]

Quote:
To the contrary in 1Cor 14 you argue that "EACH ONE" does not really mean to include women if it says "EACH ONE has a revelation".
Bob

Each member (of the BB) always has something to say on this subject.
Everyone has to join in on this subject.
Each one has an opinion to state.

Paul was using a figure of speech. He was using both sarcasm and rebuke. It was not encouragement. There was chaos in the church. "Each one" was not literally "every body" but a figure of speech meaning many. In fact it didn't even mean that the "many" all had the real prophetic gift, only that there was chaos, and that they were all trying to speak at the same time. That is why Paul previously said (in the context of speaking of tongues), that if an outsider should enter, and each one is speaking at the same time, will he not think that you are all "mad" or crazy??

You still haven't reconciled 1Cor.14 with 1Cor.12:28. It is not each one that has the gift. Paul clearly says that only some have gifts. Study your Bible.

 

[BobRyan]

I think it would be a stretch to say that each member of the BB has a desire or need or message for this thread. Some just read and post nothing -- others have no interest at all in the subject.

If I went to a neighbor and reported that each member of the BB has an option to post here -- it is obvious that I do not mean "everyone but the women".

If I say "each one of the BB board members posted to this thread" it is obvious I don't mean "all except the women".

In Christ,

Bob