More than flesh, spirit too

[Winman]

In a thread that was suddenly closed, JamesL wrote this;

The problem with the view of "no gay Christians" is a failure in this regard:

Man's identity cannot be viewed apart from the biblical understanding of man's ontological makeup. Man is two parts - spirit and body.

The body is that which is procreated, and is in Adam. Sin entered the world, and thereby the physical body through one sin, Adam's. We receive a body from our parents that is corrupt, selfish, and destined to die because of it.

But the spirit comes from God and is not created sinful. We receive the breath of God in a state of innocence. SINLESS on the inside.

Why do we see a baby having streaks of godly innocence and devilish rebellion? Because our mind, from birth is led by either the spirit or the body.

When a person grows up and goes his own way, and determines for himself what is right or wrong, he acknowledges God no longer. His inner being becomes corrupt, just as his flesh is.

This is how an unbeliever is a slave to sin - his mind is being influenced by sin from the inside and the outside.


So what about the believer, this new creation? When one believes upon Christ, his INNER being is washed in regeneration. Born again on the inside, renewed to a state of godly innocence on the inside. SINLESS again. BORN again. He has become like a little child, as Jesus said we must.

But the flesh is still corrupt, and must wait til the resurrection to be washed - in the regeneration, as Jesus said in Matt 19:28-29

Even with a regenerated inner man (the new creation, being indwelt by God Himself) our body is still sinful. Our mind is still influenced by both the godly inner being and the rebellious, carnal body.

The mind set on the flesh is at enmity with God. But the mind set on the spirit is at peace.

Our "sinful nature" is not a bent, or disposition, toward sin - it is our physical body craving what is at odds with the will of God

Every believer, at times, sets his mind on the things our sinful body desires instead of what our sinless spirit desires. Some more than others, and in various ways.

These sinful "inclinations" are desires of the body. Why else would Paul say he buffets his body? To bring it in subjection to the things of God, which he agrees with in his inner man.


Some believers have a bodily desire for Twinkies. They probably have a struggle in their mind, that overindulgence is against God's desire. But they do it anyway.

Other believers have a bodily desire to get drunk, and struggle in their mind to do what God desires. Then they fail.

Others have a bodily desire for sexual perversion, which can have many homo- or heterosexual manifestations. And they fail.

We don't have some invisible, intangible "Adamic nature" that we struggle against, we have a sin-wrecked body that is ever in conflict with our sinless, regenerated inner being.

And our mind is constantly being dragged one direction or another. This so-called "sinful nature" is simply our bodily desires, and not go away until the day we lay our body aside at death.

We have choices in what we do, which aspect of our being we set our mind on.

But we do not have a choice as to what our body desires.

Whoever decided to like chocolate cake, or the color blue, or jazz music? NOBODY. It is part of you bodily makeup. Why do we find that we like some of the same things our parents like, or we exhibit some of the same inclination and bent?

Because our BODY comes from our parents.

I wish believers would stop muddling together this ever-important biblical distinction between body and spirit. It has caused so many misunderstandings about sin and righteousness.

I am almost in complete agreement with James here. Our "flesh" simply lusts to gratify itself. For every person this might be different, one person may lust after porn, another person homosexuality, another drinking, gambling, or any combination of these sinful desires.

At the same time man is spirit. Our spirits are made and given to us by God and are not sinful, at least not at first. However, as we indulge and please our flesh, our spirit or "nature" can become sinful.

But even in this corrupted and sinful state, our spirit can will to obey God. This is shown when the disciples fell asleep in the garden.

Mat 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

This verse was spoken before the Holy Spirit was given to believers, and so speaks of man's "natural" spirit he was born with. Were the disciples sinners at this point? YES. But were they able to will to be obedient to Jesus? YES.

It is folks not understanding the difference between our flesh and spirit that leads to the false doctrine of Total Inability. Even unregenerate man has the ability to will the will of God if he so chooses.

Jhn 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Our spirits do become corrupted and become "sinful" when we willingly and knowingly sin against God. But when we trust Jesus our spirit is washed clean and regenerated as James said, and joined to the Holy Spirit. This is why a saved person cannot fall away and lose their salvation. (1 Jhn 3:9)

1 Cor 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

That a Christian can still obey the lusts of the flesh and sin is shown in the very next verse;

1 Cor 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

People need to understand man is both a body (flesh) and spirit. This would clear up much false doctrine as James wrote.

 

[kyredneck]

..... Even unregenerate man has the ability to will the will of God if he so chooses.....

Why did Christ have to die?

 

[Winman]

Why did Christ have to die?

Because all men have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

 

[kyredneck]

So you're no longer hung up on these theoretical ninety nine of one hundred that have no need of repentance, you are now admitting that ALL sin. Right?

 

[kyredneck]

For those of you who wish to delve deeper and research into the lunacy of Winman, do a BB search of Winman with the key word being 'ninety nine'.

 

[Winman]

So you're no longer hung up on these theoretical ninety nine of one hundred that have no of repentance, you are now admitting that ALL sin. Right?

The ninety nine are babies and very little children who have not sinned.

As I showed in another thread, the Jews did not consider little children to be accountable under the law until about age 13 for boys, and age 12 for girls. This is when they studied the law and became accountable for their own actions.

Under Jewish Law, children are not obligated to observe the commandments, although they are encouraged to do so as much as possible to learn the obligations they will have as adults. At the age of 13 (12 for girls), children become obligated to observe the commandments. The bar mitzvah ceremony formally, publicly marks the assumption of that obligation, along with the corresponding right to take part in leading religious services, to count in a minyan (the minimum number of people needed to perform certain parts of religious services), to form binding contracts, to testify before religious courts and to marry.

A Jewish boy automatically becomes a bar mitzvah upon reaching the age of 13 years, and a girl upon reaching the age of 12 years. No ceremony is needed to confer these rights and obligations. The popular bar mitzvah ceremony is not required, and does not fulfill any commandment. It is certainly not, as one episode of the Simpsons would have you believe, necessary to have a bar mitzvah in order to be considered a Jew! The bar or bat mitzvah is a relatively modern innovation, not mentioned in the Talmud, and the elaborate ceremonies and receptions that are commonplace today were unheard of as recently as a century ago.

http://www.jewfaq.org/barmitz.htm

Now, I must have told you guys this two dozen times. Is there something about being a Calvinist that prevents a person from comprehending very simple concepts?

Paul shows this very concept in Romans 7, he says he was alive (spiritually) once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and he died. When Paul learned the law, he was now accountable and convicted as a sinner. He was now condemned and spiritually died.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Take off those Reformed blinders and maybe you can grasp this very simple concept. Maybe.

 

[kyredneck]

Oh those poor little babies, you're soooo concerned about those poor little babies, as if God is not.

 

[Winman]

Oh those poor little babies, you're soooo concerned about those poor little babies, as if God is not.

As Thomas Paine said, "Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man".

 

[kyredneck]

Once again, for those of you who wish to delve deeper and research into the lunacy of Winman, do a BB search of Winman with the key word being 'ninety nine'.

 

[Winman]

Once again, for those of you who wish to delve deeper and research into the lunacy of Winman, do a BB search of Winman with the key word being 'ninety nine'.

Here, I'll make it easy.

Mat 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.
14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

Who is Jesus talking about in Matthew 18 when he says a shepherd had 100 sheep, but one went astray?? The shepherd diligently sought this one lost sheep until he found it, then Jesus said there is more joy over this one lost sheep that is recovered, than ninety-nine which went not astray.

Who is Jesus talking about here? Little children.

Mat 18:2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Read this over and over again until it sinks in. Even you can understand if you set your mind to it. :thumbsup:

Here's a good exercise to begin with, count how many times Jesus mentions a "little child" or "little one" here. That will warm your brain up a little. :laugh:

 

[kyredneck]

....Except ye turn, and become as little children, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven. Mt 18:3

In a huge way you miss the whole point in the scriptures, as usual. Your tunnel vision crusade against sovereign grace blinds you to the utter simplicity of these truths.

 

[kyredneck]

More than flesh, spirit too .

Wow, I must admit, I'm shocked that you give Him even that itsy bitsy credit.

....It is the spirit that giveth life; the flesh profiteth nothing....Jn 6:62

 

[Winman]

Wow, I must admit, I'm shocked that you give Him even that itsy bitsy credit.

....It is the spirit that giveth life; the flesh profiteth nothing....Jn 6:62

You're shocked? How long did that take to happen?

 

[Dr. Bob]

NOTE: When a thread is "closed", unless you have some other pertinent material, you do not "reopen" it or "quote", trying to reopen.

This is now a second time, CLOSED