Mt. 7 and Rev. 20;

[Aki]

I've been considering the following scriptures lately:

I think Mathhew 7:22-23 represents a segment of the Great White Throne Judgement, particularly the portion when it's the unbliever's turn to be judged.

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev. 20:12-13"

The unbelivers, having not Christ's righteousness imputed in them, are not in the book of life. They were therefore given the last chance to make it to God's standard - with their own works. Thus, the book of works is to be opened to assess them. More than that, they are allowed to speak, as in Matthew,

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Matthew 7: 21-22

The verdict, however, was:

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Rev. 20:14-15

With God's reply as:

"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7: 23

I don't see any issue to discuss here, except that I might be wrong to say that Mt. 7: 21-23 and Rev. 20:12-15 are talking about the same event. Just want to share my thoughts though

 

[TheOliveBranch]

But if you go on to Matt 7:24-27, he is continuing on with those that will obey his sayings and do them. If we have been judged already, then there would be no need to tell those who do his sayings to continue to do so. One who has already heard and saved from the second death, they will no longer need free will or choice, so they will already be obeying. Verse 26 backs this up. It's not the same event.

[ December 27, 2002, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: TheOliveBranch ]

 

[Chrissy]

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev. 20:12-13"

This Bible verse is plainly stating that we are going to be judged according to our works. Many verses in the Bible tell us the same thing. WE, I YOU.. all of us will be judged according to our works. That is why that verses says "EVERY MAN".

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"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7: 21-23

All this is doing is re-stating what was stated in Revelation. "Iniquity" means sin... which is transgression of the law. Jesus is here saying clearly that many claim to prophesy, cast out devils... etc. but in reality they are still SINNING... or committing iniquity, while claiming to belong to Him. Jesus will say "depart from Me, you that sin... I never knew you"... just the same way as when John so clearly stated in I John the following words:

1John:2:3: And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

Jesus says if we claim to know Him yet still keep on sinning... we are not His at all, John says the same, Revelation says we are judged by our works. Why? because by our works we show whether the faith we claim to have is really genuine.

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Rev. 20:14-15

Why are they going to be cast into the lake of fire:

Rv:21:27: And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Rv 3:5: He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

...quite simply, they will be thrown into the lak of fire because they hang onto their sins, they do not overcome sin, they work abomination, iniquity, sin.

Rv:2:2: I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars

Liars are cast into the lake of fire, and who are LIARS? let the Bible define itself...

1John:2:3: And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

The Bible is very easy to understand if we want to understand it and are willing to accept what it says. God's word is very simple. But many Christians want to believe they can keep on sinning, claim to be "saved by the blood" while living in their sins... and so they are willing to do anything they can think of to twist all of those very simply stated verses that clearly say we cannot go to heaven in our sins.

Chrissy

 

[Aki]

Originally posted by Chrissy:
The Bible is very easy to understand if we want to understand it and are willing to accept what it says. God's word is very simple. But many Christians want to believe they can keep on sinning, claim to be "saved by the blood" while living in their sins... and so they are willing to do anything they can think of to twist all of those very simply stated verses that clearly say we cannot go to heaven in our sins.

Chrissy

hi Chrissy

there is not much to argue with the topic of this post, thus a shift from it may be safe.

the way you approach it, you picked portions of scriptures which, when taken alone, would necessitate readers to believe that salvation is to be accomplished by good works.

Perhaps one good way to assess our belief is to compare the seemingly contradicting scriptures. you might ask yourself, how do the "good works verses" fit in the "faith alone verses"? is there a way to compromise them? should it be faith alone, works alone, or faith plus works?

however, you should also consider verses that talk about salvation by faith alone in Christ alone, not of works, and with eternal security. Consider Ephesians 2:8-9 for example:

Eph. 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Taken alone, this passage would lead us to believe that salvation is by grace alone, with no works attached!

While it can be said that it should not be works alone nor faith alone, but faith plus works (as seem to be argued by James), the book of Titus is clear that is is God's mercy alone.

Titus 3:5 "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;"

Believing that God does not contradict Himself, we should therefore come into one conclusion regarding salvation. Having different scriptures, when isolated, would lead to contradicting principles, i'd say that what is incorrect is the method of interpretation.

one thing that we should always remember is that God will not compromise His absolute righteousness, and that His perfect justice demands every bit of sin to be paid for, and that a lesser rigteousness than what He has is unacceptalbe for Him. thus it should be asked, would good works pass God's standard of righteousness? or is Christ's blood alone sufficient? or should one add to what Christ did for him to pass God's standard?

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Tim. 2:15