Murder rates

[SRBooe]

I didn't want to take a thread further off point with this reference, so I started a new thread.

It was implied that the U.S. is a hotbed of murders in the world. It is not as bad as it would seem:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

Now, as to why we have so many more murders per capita than other countries, that can be discussed without ever reaching a conclusion.

Of course, there are going to be those who blame the instrument of death and not the killer himself, and that has always been the case. Don't want to blame people, ya know, gotta blame the (pick one) knife, bat, gun, car, poison, scissors, rock, etc, etc, etc.

Perhaps the problem deals with morality in America. Am I allowed to say that here?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Perhaps the problem deals with morality in America. Am I allowed to say that here?

Ahhh, you just did. :laugh:

 

[Matt Black]

"Guns don't kill, people kill." Maybe, but guns certainly help; you don't kill someone ordinarily by pointing two fingers at them and shouting 'Bang!', unless I suppose they have a heart condition.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

"Guns don't kill, people kill." Maybe, but guns certainly help; you don't kill someone ordinarily by pointing two fingers at them and shouting 'Bang!', unless I suppose they have a heart condition.

Very true...

But, it would be "interesting to see the stats delineating murders per capita vs weapons used.

And, also in the stats we'd need to sort out those due to gangs and drugs...

I believe that the drug and gang violence will account for the lions share of murders by firearm...

Yet, the anti-gun lobby is also against securing our borders and cracking doen on gangs?

Go figure...

I do not need a gun to kill someone, I have two hands and pointing two fingers at someone the right way can kill them, if contact is made.

Obviously, if someone breaks down my door and has a gun getting close enough to them to defend myself may be problematic.

Further, knowing the process and moving fast enough against a youthful offender are two very different things...

Even a pretty bad off person on Meth would be stronger and fatser than me!

 

[Jason Garrett]

One of the big reasons there are so many murders is because the punishment for such a crime is not severe enough. Having worked in a high medium/maximum security state prison several years ago, prisons are not the dark, dungeon type places people think of. They provide inmates with 3 good meals a day, recreation, education, jobs to earn money, and places to spend that money. This particular facility at which I worked afforded each inmate a color television at the foot of their bed, and each tv had cable programming. yes, that's right. Two men in a cell, then each inmate had their own tv. My point is that for the person who is heck-bent on murdering someone, the way our current prisons operate and the relative (notice I said relative) luxuries afforded the inmates are no deterrent.

Second, the death penalty is not used correctly. Opponents of the death penalty say it's not a deterrent, and can admittedly back that up with numbers. However, I content that if the death penalty was used correctly, it would be a huge deterrent. For the person convicted of murder on absolutely proof and not circumstantial evidence, our nation should have a separate appellate court system JUST for death penalty cases so that any appeals filed will be pushed through in 1 year or less and the death penalty carried out quickly and judiciously. I strongly feel a death penalty system like this would change behavior rather quickly, because the gang banger who popped off a few rounds at someone won't be able to go to prison for the rest of his life and continue his activities. We can argue all day long as to what the Bible says on the death penalty, but the fact of the matter is our nation's lack of JUSTICE, real justice, contributed greatly to crime because the criminal sees no real, tangible, immediate consequence to their action.

 

[exscentric]

The Portland OR mayor wants to get guns off the street so has instituted a gun buy back program that guarantees no check on the weapon or the person.

Result: You can shoot someone, turn the murder weapon in for bucks and have the police dept. destroy the evidence.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

RE: Death Penalty.

Niether swift nor sure...

Federal backed investigative branch to ensure that all leads, even ones potentially exhonerating, be followed to ensure the guilty is the one punished.

Limit investigative and appeals process to two years...

Make it a death penalty felony for anyone to knowingly with hold mitigating or exhonerating evidence where an innocent person was executed.

This would include DA's and Judges!

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

The Portland OR mayor wants to get guns off the street so has instituted a gun buy back program that guarantees no check on the weapon or the person.

Result: You can shoot someone, turn the murder weapon in for bucks and have the police dept. destroy the evidence.

In addition to the above comments...

Gun buy backs only encourage theft of legitimate arms, and provide financing for newer weapons...

Better to give the money to the Local LEO's than waste it this way!

 

[billwald]

The BIG reason for the ranking is that murder by one's own government is not counted in the homicide statistics.

 

[Don]

"Guns don't kill, people kill." Maybe, but guns certainly help; you don't kill someone ordinarily by pointing two fingers at them and shouting 'Bang!', unless I suppose they have a heart condition.

Nope, you don't; if I don't have a gun, I use a knife, club, fireplace poker, baseball bat, rocks, whatever's available. Even heard of military combat members using their helmets as club-like weapons.

It would be most interesting to find the statistics on violent attacks/murders in prisons, where they don't have guns.

 

[Jason Garrett]

According to NationMaster.Com, violent attacks in prison, per capita, are 750 per 100,000 inmates.

Amongst the non-confined population, the nubmers are almost identical.

 

[Don]

According to NationMaster.Com, violent attacks in prison, per capita, are 750 per 100,000 inmates.

Amongst the non-confined population, the nubmers are almost identical.

So take away the guns...and the result is the same. Interesting....

 

[blackbird]

The Portland OR mayor wants to get guns off the street so has instituted a gun buy back program that guarantees no check on the weapon or the person.

Result: You can shoot someone, turn the murder weapon in for bucks and have the police dept. destroy the evidence.

You do not have to have the murder weapon to prove a murder----if someone kills someone else-----they can take the weapon and smelt it down----and can still be tried for murder

You do not have to have the evidence to prove the guilt!!

 

[exscentric]

You do not have to have the murder weapon to prove a murder----if someone kills someone else-----they can take the weapon and smelt it down----and can still be tried for murder

You do not have to have the evidence to prove the guilt!!

Don't think I said you did, but government destroying evidence and turning a blind eye to possible trouble is not what government ought to be doing.

 

[North Carolina Tentmaker]

The murder rate in the US is higher than many other countries. Being 24th on the provided Nation Master link, placing us between Bulgaria and Armenia is nothing to brag about. But what would you like this rate to be? Zero?

How high a murder rate are you willing to accept in exchange for living in a free society? The reason our founders ensured that the citizens of the United States would never loose their right to be armed was two fold. One reason was personal defense. In a large country with limited government, self protection was a necessity to survival. But the other more important reason was to keep our government in check. Our founders understood and wanted to preserve the idea that when a government became oppressive and overbearing it was the right and duty of the citizenship to overthrow that government, by violent means if required.

If they exchange for that freedom is a higher crime and murder rate I am more than willing to pay it. If you want to be a safe, well-fed serf, move to Europe. I hear it is very popular there. Whatever steps we take to control the murder rate should include measures like killing criminals, but should never restrict the rights of free Americans.

 

[billwald]

>How high a murder rate are you willing to accept in exchange for living in a free society?

At least as high as we now have. Very few murders are random, most are personal: family, friends, and neighbors. One can probably cut one's chances of being murdered in half by staying home after dark. As the real estate people say, "LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION." Hardly ever see a murder in an upscale neighborhood.

 

[Salty]

>How high a murder rate are you willing to accept in exchange for living in a free society?

At least as high as we now have. Very few murders are random, most are personal: family, friends, and neighbors. ...

and I would add they probably involve illegal activity such as drugs - ect.

 

[billwald]

>You do not have to have the murder weapon to prove a murder----if someone kills someone else-----they can take the weapon and smelt it down----and can still be tried for murder

True under US law. Under God's Law, the law that several continuing threads insist we should all obey, two or more eye witnesses were necessary to convict. Circumstantial evidence was unknown in the courts of 2000 BC. In other words, most current convictions in the US would never had made it to court in OT times.

 

[SRBooe]

The murder rate in the US is higher than many other countries. Being 24th on the provided Nation Master link, placing us between Bulgaria and Armenia is nothing to brag about. But what would you like this rate to be? Zero?

How high a murder rate are you willing to accept in exchange for living in a free society? The reason our founders ensured that the citizens of the United States would never loose their right to be armed was two fold. One reason was personal defense. In a large country with limited government, self protection was a necessity to survival. But the other more important reason was to keep our government in check. Our founders understood and wanted to preserve the idea that when a government became oppressive and overbearing it was the right and duty of the citizenship to overthrow that government, by violent means if required.

If they exchange for that freedom is a higher crime and murder rate I am more than willing to pay it. If you want to be a safe, well-fed serf, move to Europe. I hear it is very popular there. Whatever steps we take to control the murder rate should include measures like killing criminals, but should never restrict the rights of free Americans.

I feel an "Amen" coming on.

 

[North Carolina Tentmaker]

and I would add they probably involve illegal activity such as drugs - ect.

If you took the drug addicts and gang members out of the figures I wonder what our murder rate would be then. Not excusing those murders, they are people to, but you are right Salty, our behavior and habits can make our lives much safer.