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Muslims exempt from Obamacare?

NaasPreacher (C4K)

Well-Known Member
This charge was made in another thread.

This ought to be a simple one to prove. Where in the health care bill are Muslims, or any other group, specifically exempted? A simple link to that section of the bill will suffice.
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
...This ought to be a simple one to prove. Where in the health care bill are Muslims, or any other group, specifically exempted? ...

Not necessarily - with anywhere from 2000 - 5,000 pages, it could be very easy to hide info - ie "see this section, refer to that section, in conjuction....."

Not saying it is in there, but with all that leagalise....
 

NaasPreacher (C4K)

Well-Known Member
Not necessarily - with anywhere from 2000 - 5,000 pages, it could be very easy to hide info - ie "see this section, refer to that section, in conjuction....."

Not saying it is in there, but with all that leagalise....

Surely, with it being stated as fact somebody has something to verify it as true. Conservatives would never post facts without evidence. We don't play that game. Only liberals do that.
 

mandym

New Member
I don't care what snopes says. Ever. However, there are a number of religious exemptions in this bill. Singling out Muslims would not be fair. But if I remember correctly the issue that raised so many hackles was not about a Muslim exemption but the issue of "Dhimmitide" wording in the bill.
 

NaasPreacher (C4K)

Well-Known Member
I don't care what snopes says. Ever. However, there are a number of religious exemptions in this bill. Singling out Muslims would not be fair. But if I remember correctly the issue that raised so many hackles was not about a Muslim exemption but the issue of "Dhimmitide" wording in the bill.

Okay, all we need then is a link to show the page where it appears?

HERE is the pdf file.

I went to page 107 where this clause is supposed to appear and am missing it. Here is the text from that page

107
•HR 3962 IH
1 (c) REQUIREMENTS RELATING TO COST-SHARING
2 AND MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE.—
3 (1) NO COST-SHARING FOR PREVENTIVE SERV4
ICES.—There shall be no cost-sharing under the es5
sential benefits package for—
6 (A) preventive items and services rec7
ommended with a grade of A or B by the Task
8 Force on Clinical Preventive Services and those
9 vaccines recommended for use by the Director
10 of the Centers for Disease Control and Preven11
tion; or
12 (B) well-baby and well-child care.
13 (2) ANNUAL LIMITATION.—
14 (A) ANNUAL LIMITATION.—The cost-shar15
ing incurred under the essential benefits pack16
age with respect to an individual (or family) for
17 a year does not exceed the applicable level spec18
ified in subparagraph (B).
19 (B) APPLICABLE LEVEL.—The applicable
20 level specified in this subparagraph for Y1 is
21 not to exceed $5,000 for an individual and not
22 to exceed $10,000 for a family. Such levels
23 shall be increased (rounded to the nearest
24 $100) for each subsequent year by the annual
25 percentage increase in the enrollment-weighted
VerDate Nov 24 2008 12:56 Oct 30, 2009 Jkt 089200 PO 00000 Frm 00107 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:\BILLS\H3962.IH H3962 rmajette on
 
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LadyEagle

<b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
Okay, all we need then is a link to show the page where it appears?


Section 5000A

(2) RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS-

`(A) RELIGIOUS CONSCIENCE EXEMPTION- Such term shall not include any individual for any month if such individual has in effect an exemption under section 1311(d)(4)(H) of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act which certifies that such individual is a member of a recognized religious sect or division thereof described in section 1402(g)(1) and an adherent of established tenets or teachings of such sect or division as described in such section.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act/Title_I/Subtitle_F/Part_I


THE BEST COMMENTARY I COULD FIND TO EXPLAIN WHAT THIS MEANS: <snipped>
ObamaCare uses the Social Security language of the Internal Revenue Code to determine who is eligible for “religious conscience” objection to the insurance mandate. Specifically, the law provides exemptions for adherents of “recognized religious sects” that are “conscientiously opposed” to accepting benefits from any insurance, public or private.

As a consequence of this provision, Muslims may claim a religious exemption that is denied Christians and Jews. Since Islam believes insurance is haraam (forbidden) and likens insurance to gambling, the religion is excluded from requirements, mandates, or penalties set forth in the bill. Others who fall into this category are the Amish, American Indians, and Christian Scientists. Although the U.S. Constitution grants all Americans equal protection of the law, some Americans are more equal than others.

<snipped>

In a curious way the privilege granted Muslims and denied to most others translates into what Muslims call “dhimmitude,” or the taxing of non-Muslims in exchange for the acceptance of their presence. Intentionally or not, ObamaCare allows for the establishment of this practice and Sharia dictates in the United States. Conversely, if a Christian refuses to pay for required health care insurance, liens can be placed against assets and hard prison time could accompany noncompliance. Non-Muslims are, in effect, paying a tax to subsidize Muslims.

This is precisely the issue ObamaCare has insinuated into the national health care debate. Whether one accepts the proposition, cross-subsidization is built into the law: the young are coerced into underwriting the elderly and non-Muslims are being coerced into subsidizing Muslims. Taking from Peter to give to Paul usually pleases Paul. But the question of fairness remains, as does the “equal protection” clause in the Constitution. Ultimately the public will ask why some should be favored to the exclusion of others.
http://pjmedia.com/blog/obamacares-muslim-exemption/
 

NaasPreacher (C4K)

Well-Known Member
So it doesn't exempt Muslims but has a general religious exemption clause and does not include Muslim dhimmitude. It is more like the Social Security exemption that ordained ministers can claim if it is a religious conviction.

People for distracted by this kind of stuff last time around. There are many more solid reasons not to support the president.
 
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LadyEagle

<b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
So it doesn't exempt Muslims but has a general religious exemption clause and does not include Muslim dhimmitude. It is more like the Social Security exemption that ordained ministers can claim if it is a religious conviction.

Interpret it as you will.
 
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Don

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
So it doesn't exempt Muslims but has a general religious exemption clause and does not include Muslim dhimmitude. It is more like the Social Security exemption that ordained ministers can claim if it is a religious conviction.

People for distracted by this kind of stuff last time around. There are many more solid reasons not to support the president.
Actually, you need to re-look at section 1402(g)(1). No, it doesn't specifically identify Muslims, or dhimmitude, or any particular religion. But as the article Lady Eagle quoted points out, it recognizes that certain religions have certain aversions to certain types of health care. In this case (and I haven't been able to actually confirm this yet), there is the statement that islamic law prohibits insurance; thus, 1402(g)(1) allows muslims to be exempt.

Granted, 1402(g)(1) also allows exemption for those religious sects that don't believe in actual health care, and would rather pray their way to good health. But it has to be a "recognized" religion, with "recognition" of that particular practice/belief. Your standard Christian, buddhist, etc. doesn't seem to be covered by 1402(g)(1) because we can't claim those recognitions; and thus, the list of religions that are exempted becomes very small; with the religion with the most practicing people being muslim.
 

NaasPreacher (C4K)

Well-Known Member
There is no evidence that Islam is exempted, especially has an entire religion. We simply can't take this clause and say that it is a Muslim 'out' clause.

Let's oppose or favour Omamacare on its merits or warknesses, not because a wacko right wing source wants us to believe it is pro Muslim.
 

saturneptune

New Member
There is no evidence that Islam is exempted, especially has an entire religion. We simply can't take this clause and say that it is a Muslim 'out' clause.

Let's oppose or favour Omamacare on its merits or warknesses, not because a wacko right wing source wants us to believe it is pro Muslim.
Totally correct. There is enough in the bill to oppose it, especially the forced purchase of insurance.
 

NaasPreacher (C4K)

Well-Known Member
Does anybody have any facts to support that all Muslims can claim this exemption? Islam is like Christianity in that it is a general term when used that way. There are many sects and denominations with the general title 'Islam.'

Some 'Christian' sects will apparently be exempt. Chances are that some 'Muslim' groups will qualify the same way.

When we debate this issues if we cannot debate them on the facts instead of conjecture maybe we don't have as strong a case as we claim. The facts should be enough to sway people without this kind of guessing, fearmongering, and half truths.
 
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