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Must God create the best?

H

humblethinker

Active Member
While thinking on the idea from this thread I began to consider whether God must always create the best. In Genesis, God said that his creation was 'good'. Is it the case that it could not have been better? Is it the case that it could have been better? Also, He knowingly created a reality in which sin would exist... Is a creation that needs no redemption better than one that has been redeemed?

I came across this in multiple sites so I'm not sure who to attribute it to besides Leibniz. I would propose the following with the idea of the word 'world' meaning the reality encompasing the Bible's "In the beginning..." to its last recorded actions of the future.

1. It is necessary that God exists.
2. It is necessary that: if God exists, then God is perfectly good.
3. Therefore, it is necessary that God is perfectly good. (1,2)
4. It is necessary that a perfectly good being alwayschoose to do the best.
5. If God creates, it is necessary that he choose to create the best possible world.
6. God chose to create the actual world (our world).
7. Therefore, it is necessary that God chose to create the actual world, and the actual world is the best possible world. (4, 5, 6)
 
F

freeatlast

New Member
humblethinker said:
While thinking on the idea from this thread I began to consider whether God must always create the best. In Genesis, God said that his creation was 'good'. Is it the case that it could not have been better? Is it the case that it could have been better? Also, He knowingly created a reality in which sin would exist... Is a creation that needs no redemption better than one that has been redeemed?

I came across this in multiple sites so I'm not sure who to attribute it to besides Leibniz. I would propose the following with the idea of the word 'world' meaning the reality encompasing the Bible's "In the beginning..." to its last recorded actions of the future.

1. It is necessary that God exists.
2. It is necessary that: if God exists, then God is perfectly good.
3. Therefore, it is necessary that God is perfectly good. (1,2)
4. It is necessary that a perfectly good being alwayschoose to do the best.
5. If God creates, it is necessary that he choose to create the best possible world.
6. God chose to create the actual world (our world).
7. Therefore, it is necessary that God chose to create the actual world, and the actual world is the best possible world. (4, 5, 6)
Click to expand...

No disrespect but I would say that your questions are very close to blasphemy. Are you asking if God can fail or fall short?
 
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Scarlett O.

Scarlett O.

Moderator
Moderator
Is a creation that needs no redemption better than one that has been redeemed?
Click to expand...

This is the crux of your question and of course it is not blasphemous to ask it.

It's a valid question. My answer is no. A creation that needs no redemption is not better than one that has to be redeemed or that has been redeemed.

How do I know that?

The angels in heaven who did not follow Lucifer are a creation that needs no redemption. They did not and do not need to be "saved" from anything. They cannot be "saved". They are what they are. And they are not a better creation than mankind. God did not do His best work in the angels. His work in its entirety - from the lowest amoeba to the brightest star - is His best work.

How do I know that?

Because Revelation 4:11 says that it pleased God to create everything just like it is. It would not have pleased God if His creation were not the best.

And one more thing. Just because God created a world and a human race that He knew would fall and NEED to be redeemed does not negate the wonderousness of that creation.

Just His sovereignty alone and His foreknowledge alone and His STILL creating a race that will fall anyway speaks to the fact that this was the best way possible for Him to fulfill His ultimate plan. God would not have chosen any other way to fulfill His own plan than the best way possible.

Our concept of "good" and "best" aren't the same as God's.

 
preachinjesus

preachinjesus

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
humblethinker said:
1. It is necessary that God exists.
2. It is necessary that: if God exists, then God is perfectly good.
3. Therefore, it is necessary that God is perfectly good. (1,2)
4. It is necessary that a perfectly good being alwayschoose to do the best.
5. If God creates, it is necessary that he choose to create the best possible world.
6. God chose to create the actual world (our world).
7. Therefore, it is necessary that God chose to create the actual world, and the actual world is the best possible world. (4, 5, 6)
Click to expand...

Your syllogism is a bit off, specifically I would recommend rethinking the transition between points 4 & 5.

Also you might do well to look up some conversations by leading evangelical philosophers like Plantinga and Craig about best possible worlds. It is specifically in response to the Problem of Evil discussion, but certain applies to your conversation as well.

I don't think its blasphemous to engage in this conversation btw. It is a significant conversation in philosophical circles right now....specifically evangelical circles. :)

I should add, that the best possible world conversation comes off Plantinga's Free Will Defense which is (nearly) the airtight response to the evidential problem of evil. It has changed everything for evangelical philosophy.
 
H

humblethinker

Active Member
preachinjesus said:
Your syllogism is a bit off, specifically I would recommend rethinking the transition between points 4 & 5.

Also you might do well to look up some conversations by leading evangelical philosophers like Plantinga and Craig about best possible worlds. It is specifically in response to the Problem of Evil discussion, but certain applies to your conversation as well.

I don't think its blasphemous to engage in this conversation btw. It is a significant conversation in philosophical circles right now....specifically evangelical circles. :)

I should add, that the best possible world conversation comes off Plantinga's Free Will Defense which is (nearly) the airtight response to the evidential problem of evil. It has changed everything for evangelical philosophy.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply. I will endeaver to read Plantinga's ideas. Can you tell me what you mean about your consideration of the transition between points 4 and 5. While this is not original to me I'm not sure that I disagree with any of the points if I accept that God must do the best. Must He do the best that can possibly be done? Is that 'best' only one singular thing or can there be two or three things that would be considered 'best'?
 
H

humblethinker

Active Member
A little off topic here but I never could completely agree with people making the statement, "You should dress your best when you come to church.". My thought was, "Then I would wear the same thing everytime I come to church!".
 
H

humblethinker

Active Member
Scarlett O. said:
Just His sovereignty alone and His foreknowledge alone and His STILL creating a race that will fall anyway speaks to the fact that this was the best way possible for Him to fulfill His ultimate plan. God would not have chosen any other way to fulfill His own plan than the best way possible.
Click to expand...

Thank you. And with preachinjesus help I found where Platinga specifically addresses the idea that atonement is the greatest story that ever could be told, and that He has created the greatest world that could ever be created.
 
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H

humblethinker

Active Member
Scarlett O. said:
Just His sovereignty alone and His foreknowledge alone and His STILL creating a race that will fall anyway speaks to the fact that this was the best way possible for Him to fulfill His ultimate plan. God would not have chosen any other way to fulfill His own plan than the best way possible.

Our concept of "good" and "best" aren't the same as God's.

Click to expand...

It seems to me that a world that has been redeemed is 'better' than a world that needs not to be redeemed.

The word, 'better', meaning it brings Him more glory.
 
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