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Mystery Quote
- Thread starter Rippon
- Start date
After contemplating this one for a while, I'm saying yes.Jarthur001 said:
One is not saved because of what they currrently believe, IMO, but rather because of what they believed, at the point of salvation. If it was possible for one Apostle (Barnabas) to be carried away by the deception of another apostle (Peter- Gal.2), then it would surely be possible for one far less gifted than he, such as I, to be carried away, as well, I would say. I know of individuals who are certainly saved, IMO, who do not believe today, as they did, in some cases, for many years. I believe them to have been deceived; I do not believe that they never "actually were really and truly, genuinely, Biblically saved to begin with", and find no Scripture to support any such "theological hogwash" anywhere. One is either saved or one is unsaved, in that 'eternal' sense. There are no 'degrees' or qualifiers of this.
That position may be 'good theology', but it is 'lousy Bible', IMO. I do not claim to be infallible in my theology, by any stretch. So some of what I believe and teach is obviously false, therefore.
Unlike some others, apparently.
Ed
Last edited by a moderator:
Salamander
New Member
Does or doesn't he "avoid" teaching about the Blood of Christ as being the ONLY way of redemption???Rippon said:
Is your theology perfect? If so then you must be perfect. We both know the latter isn't true. Man can only have a perfect theology if his preception of the doctrine of Christ is perfect. Since there is no man except for Christ who ever had a perfect theology none are saved, not even you, according to your own claims. For you to claim to have a perfect theology would place you on the same level as Christ.Rippon said:
MB
Jarthur001
Active Member
EdSutton said:After contemplating this one for a while, I'm saying yes.
One is not saved because of what they currrently believe, IMO, but rather because of what they believed, at the point of salvation. If it was possible for one Apostle (Barnabas) to be carried away by the deception of another apostle (Peter- Gal.2), then it would surely be possible for one far less gifted than he, such as I, to be carried away, as well, I would say. I know of individuals who are certainly saved, IMO, who do not believe today, as they did, in some cases, for many years. I believe them to have been deceived; I do not believe that they never "actually were really and truly, genuinely, Biblically saved to begin with", and find no Scripture to support any such "theological hogwash" anywhere. One is either saved or one is unsaved, in that 'eternal' sense. There are no 'degrees' or qualifiers of this.
That position may be 'good theology', but it is 'lousy Bible', IMO. I do not claim to be infallible in my theology, by any stretch. So some of what I believe and teach is obviously false, therefore.
Unlike some others, apparently.
Ed
Please don't apply this tyo any thing but the gospel. That was what I asked about.
so 1st
...what is the gospel?
2nd ....Can a person hear a false gospel, believe a false gospel, and be saved?
Lukasaurus
Member
Why must you all defend a man you don't even know.
Someone said on the first page "Macarthur may be the most gifted pastor/teacher in the world".
The man doesn't even believe his Bible. I have a copy of his study Bible which has corrections all over the footnotes, and alternate translations.
Anyway, the statement in itself is unbiblical. You should respect your own pastor, not worry about others. It seems to me that many calvinists listen to some big name pastor rather than the pastor of the church they are in. The most gifted pastor I know is Pastor Robert Rutta (He has a doctorate, but won't tell anyone). He has helped me more than any other man or teacher. Another man is Pastor Keith Piper, pastor of the first church I went to after God convicted me of truth (I was saved, but going to an anglican church, and couldn't stand the evolution, bible correction and other stuff that went on).
It seems to me that the entire Calvinist/Lordship theology that exists today is built upon the doctrine of a dozen or so men. Sproul, Piper, Begg, MacArthur, Hodge and to a lesser extent Washer (because he is young, and has not written any books that I know of), and Pink (because he is old fashioned now apparently).
I don't feel the need to defend Dr Ruckman, Scofield, Sam Gipp, or Vance, or James Knox. I might point out a wrong fact (such as someone said Ruckman was divorced three times and I corrected that to two) but I am not going to defend their doctrines. I would defend my own pastor, but none of you probably know him, so that's not a matter here nor there.
Someone said on the first page "Macarthur may be the most gifted pastor/teacher in the world".
The man doesn't even believe his Bible. I have a copy of his study Bible which has corrections all over the footnotes, and alternate translations.
Anyway, the statement in itself is unbiblical. You should respect your own pastor, not worry about others. It seems to me that many calvinists listen to some big name pastor rather than the pastor of the church they are in. The most gifted pastor I know is Pastor Robert Rutta (He has a doctorate, but won't tell anyone). He has helped me more than any other man or teacher. Another man is Pastor Keith Piper, pastor of the first church I went to after God convicted me of truth (I was saved, but going to an anglican church, and couldn't stand the evolution, bible correction and other stuff that went on).
It seems to me that the entire Calvinist/Lordship theology that exists today is built upon the doctrine of a dozen or so men. Sproul, Piper, Begg, MacArthur, Hodge and to a lesser extent Washer (because he is young, and has not written any books that I know of), and Pink (because he is old fashioned now apparently).
I don't feel the need to defend Dr Ruckman, Scofield, Sam Gipp, or Vance, or James Knox. I might point out a wrong fact (such as someone said Ruckman was divorced three times and I corrected that to two) but I am not going to defend their doctrines. I would defend my own pastor, but none of you probably know him, so that's not a matter here nor there.
All Scripture Cited Is From The NLTse
I had said that one who preaches/teaches a false Gospel (anothe gospel) is unregenerate -- unsaved.Apparently EdS.isn't familiar with Gal.1:8,9.If anyone thinks that one who has the curse of the Lord upon him is saved anyway Bible 101 is necessary.
Matthew 7:15 :"Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves."
False prophets = false teachers.The term "false teachers" should not be tossed around so easily as Lou was in the habit of doing.
2 Timothy 3:8,9 :"These teachers oppose the truth just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses.They have depraved minds and a counterfeit faith."
Do you get the idea that at the very least these kind of men are not regenerate individuals?
2 Peter 2:1 :"But there were also false prophets in Israel,just as there will be false teachers among you.They will cleverly teach destructive heresies and even deny the Master who bought them.In this way,they will bring sudden destruction on themselves."
I'm citing verses that describe false teachers here!
Look at verse 17 of the same chapter describing the very same kind of men :"These people are as useless as dried-up springs or as mist blown away by the wind.They are doomed to blackest darkness."
These are reprobates.They are unregenerate.They have reservations in the Lake of Fire.
That's my line in the theological sand for ya -- biblical boundaries.
EdSutton said:
I had said that one who preaches/teaches a false Gospel (anothe gospel) is unregenerate -- unsaved.Apparently EdS.isn't familiar with Gal.1:8,9.If anyone thinks that one who has the curse of the Lord upon him is saved anyway Bible 101 is necessary.
Matthew 7:15 :"Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves."
False prophets = false teachers.The term "false teachers" should not be tossed around so easily as Lou was in the habit of doing.
2 Timothy 3:8,9 :"These teachers oppose the truth just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses.They have depraved minds and a counterfeit faith."
Do you get the idea that at the very least these kind of men are not regenerate individuals?
2 Peter 2:1 :"But there were also false prophets in Israel,just as there will be false teachers among you.They will cleverly teach destructive heresies and even deny the Master who bought them.In this way,they will bring sudden destruction on themselves."
I'm citing verses that describe false teachers here!
Look at verse 17 of the same chapter describing the very same kind of men :"These people are as useless as dried-up springs or as mist blown away by the wind.They are doomed to blackest darkness."
These are reprobates.They are unregenerate.They have reservations in the Lake of Fire.
That's my line in the theological sand for ya -- biblical boundaries.