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National Corruption and Free Will

Guido

Active Member
This I do not understand, how a whole nation can become corrupt, and remain in that state for many generations, when everyone in that nation has their own free will. It appears that the nation where a person is born, and the nation where the person grows up, has more of an influence on their moral behavior then their freedom of choice. Why, then, does God hold them so accountable? Is there a teaching in the Bible, that God causes souls, whom He knows will be evil and unrepentant, to be born in certain places? Or is there another explanation?

Thank you for answering.
 

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
everyone in that nation has their own free will
"Clear thinking is very much needed when we come to deal with the Free Agency of man. Some have imagined it a very difficult subject because they have made out of it something other than what it is. For the same reason some have charged that the doctrine of unconditional election, a Bible and Baptist doctrine, destroys the Free Agency of man, with regard to man having a Nature in his soul which would have to be Spiritually Capable of Birthing itself from the Nature of Spiritual Inability, which leaves all men Spiritually Dead, unless God Initiates The Act of Salvation.

"Well does Spurgeon say: "In reference to the matter of Predestination and Free Will,
I have often heard men ask, 'How do you make them agree?'

"I think there is another question just as difficult to solve. 'How do you make them differ?'

"The two may be as easily made to concur as to clash.
It seems to me a problem which cannot be stated, and a subject that needs no solution!" (Sermons, Vol. 13, p. 31).

It appears that the nation where a person is born, and the nation where the person grows up, has more of an influence on their moral behavior then their freedom of choice.

THE FREE AGENCY OF MAN leaves man where it found them = in sin;

"Man cannot do otherwise than continue in sin so long as he is in his Natural State
(Jer. 17:9; Prov. 4:23; Job 14-4; Jer. 13:23; John 6:65; Rom. 8:7,8; 1 Cor. 2:14).

"But his continuance in sin is not due to outside compulsion or restraint,
but to his own character which causes him to choose darkness rather than light (John 3:19).

"He continues in sin for the same reason that a hog wallows in the mire.

"He continues in sin for the same reason that God continues in Holiness.

"Thus man is fully a Free Agent, unable put themselves in a position TO FLY TO THE MOON, BUT THEY ARE ENTIRELY FREE TO DO SO.

Why, then, does God hold them so accountable?
WHY MAN IS RESPONSIBLE? The question is, then, how can man be responsible for his actions when all that he does has been Ordained and Decreed of God? This is not a new question. It is at least as old as the New Testament, and probably much older. Paul anticipated this question from his readers when he penned the wonderful ninth chapter of Romans.

"He said. "Thou will say then unto me, Why doth he still find fault? For who withstandeth his will."

"And Paul's reply was: "Nay, but, 0 man, who art thou that repliest against God?
Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why didst thou make me thus?

"Or hath not the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor."


"Paul's mentioning of this question and his reply show conclusively that Paul taught the Absolute Sovereignty of God. Indeed his preceding words clearly teach it. Paul made the reply that he did because he anticipated the question as coming from an objector.

"When it comes as a Reverent Inquiry, it deserves more detailed consideration. Paul's reply had to be brief because his time and purpose would not permit a lengthy discussion. Our time permits and our purpose demands a fuller discussion. Man is responsible for his actions, notwithstanding the fact that God has Decreed All that Comes to Pass, for at least Three Reasons:

1. God's Decree Concerning Sin is Not Causative but Permissive, Directive, Preventive, and Determinative.

"God decreed that sin should come in the world, for reasons that are fully known only to Him, but He decreed that it should come by man's own free choice. God does not compel man to sin, but He allows it. Man, and not God, is the efficient cause of sin; and for that reason man is responsible. Before passing it needs to be remarked that no objections can be brought against the statement that God decreed that sin should come into the world that cannot be brought against God's Actual Permission of sin, unless the objector takes the position that God was Powerless to Rrevent the entrance of sin.

"This would be a denial of God's Omnipotence and Sovereignty, and would render the objector unworthy of consideration here. God's Omnipotence and Sovereignty teaches us that whatever God Permits He Permits because He Wills to do so.

"And since God is Immutable, His Will has ever been the same. What He Wills at any time He has Willed from All Eternity.
Therefore, God's Will Equals His Purpose and His Purpose Equals God's Eternal Decree.

2. The Law of God and Not His Decree Fixes Man's Duty and Responsibility.


"The law of God is man's guide and standard. This is God's Revealed Will. God's Decree is His Secret Will.

"Man has nothing to do with this except to know and acknowledge the facts concerning it.

"The Secret things belong unto Jehovah, our God; but things that are Revealed belong unto us and to our children Forever,
that we may do all the Words of this Law" (Deut. 29:29).

3. The Motive Back of Man's Sinning Makes Him Responsible.

"Why does man sin? Is it ever because he wants to do the Will of God? Nay, never so.

"Why did men crucify Christ? Was it because they believed that God had Sent Him to die as a Sin-Bearer? No.
It was because they hated Him. They crucified Him through wicked motives. It is thus that man always sins.

"Sin proceeds from man's love of Darkness (John 3:19).


FREE AGENCY AND CONVERSION Man is unable to turn from sin until he is Quickened by the Spirit of God.
For proof of this see the passages given above, in proof of the fact that man cannot do otherwise than continue in sin so long as he is in his Natural State. The New Nature, therefore, must be Implanted logically... prior to the exercise of Repentance and Faith.*

"This is the meaning of the New Hampshire Declaration of Faith when it says that Repentance and Faith are "Inseparable Graces wrought in our souls by the Regenerating Spirit of God." This is also the teaching of Eph. 1:19,20. But when a man turns to God in Repentance and Faith he acts voluntarily and he is thus a Free Agent. Once Enabled by The Holy Spirit TO RELATE TO GOD WHO IS SPIRIT, when the sinner
is Made a Partaker of The Divine Nature, THEN THE BORN AGAIN SOUL WILL TURN FROM THEIR SIN, WILLFULLY, AND BELIEVE IN JESUS.

"The sinner is not compelled to turn by a Power outside of his own Nature.

"Because, when Implanting the New Nature, the Holy Spirit Operates "in the region of the soul below consciousness" (Strong).

"
Then that New Nature, when Implanted, becomes as much a part of the man as his Old Nature was;

"and NEW ETERNAL DIVINE NATURE Moves their New will in strict conformity to the Nature, Laws,
and normal action of the same very own will they have always possessed, however, which has now been Born Again
and been Accompanied by The Holy Spirit, in the Saved soul's New will that is now of a Divine Nature.

Thus man is a Free Agent in Conversion.

THE FREE AGENCY OF MAN continues to work in him "both to will and to work for His Good Pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).

"But this work, like the work of Quickening, does not coerce the person's will, which is now Born Again,
it is their New Divine, Born Again NATURE THAT THEY NOW POSSESS A SPIRITUAL WILL THAT MAKES UNDERSTANDING GOD POSSIBLE
GIVES THEM THE UNCTION FROM ON HIGH TO REPENT AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL.

from https://www.ntslibrary.com/PDF Books II/Simmons - A Systematic Study of Bible Doctrine.pdf
...
 

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
Is there a teaching in the Bible, that God causes souls, whom He knows will be evil and unrepentant, to be born in certain places?

"Is your name written in the Book of Life from the Foundation of the World?

"Only Predestination could have arranged this.

"If you believe the Bible, you must believe in Predestination."


"The Bible teaches that God is in Absolute Control of all things – both good and bad.
Those who sinned by killing Christ did God's Permissive Will.

"Christ, “...being delivered by the Determinate Counsel and Foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have Crucified and slain” (Acts 2:23). And again, “For of a Truth against Thy Holy Child Jesus, Whom Thou hast Anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever Thy Hand and Thy Counsel Determined before to be Done” (Acts 4:27, 28).

"The Doctrine of God's “Counsel,” “Determinate Counsel” or “Predestination” is True because God is in Control of every detail of life:
He Saves whom He Wants to Save when He Wants. “...I Am God, and there is none like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning,
and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My Counsel shall Stand, and I Will Do all My Pleasure:
(Isaiah 46:9-10).

“Thou art Worthy, O Lord, to receive Glory and Honor and Power:
for Thou hast Created all things, and for Thy Pleasure they are and were Created
(Revelation 4:11).

"About God it was said, “And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and He doeth according to His Will in the army of Heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay His Hand, or say unto Him, What doest Thou? (Daniel 4:35).

“And our God is in the Heavens, All that He hath Pleased He hath Done (Psalm 115:3).

All that Jehovah Pleased He hath Done, In the Heavens and in earth, In the seas and all deep places”
(Psalm 135:6).

“For Jehovah of Hosts hath Purposed, And who doth make void?
And His Hand that is stretched out, Who doth turn it back?”
(Isaiah 14:27).

“Declaring from the beginning the latter end, And from of old that which hath not been done,
Saying, ‘My Counsel doth Stand, And all My Delight I do'”
(Isaiah 46:10).

"Because God is in Absolute Control of all things, Jesus could and did say,

All that the Father giveth Me shall come to Me;
and him that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out. And this is the Father’s Will which hath Sent Me,
that of all which He hath Given Me I should lose nothing, but should Raise it Up Again at the Last Day (John 6:37 & 39).

"God is in Control of and is the cause of all physical evil such as storms, earthquakes, etc.,
for the Bible says, “...shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?” (Amos 3:6).

"Jesus said His followers should rejoice because their “names are written in Heaven” (Luke 10:20).

"About others it is said “...whose names were not written in the book of Life from the Foundation of the world (Revelation 17:8).

"Is your name written in the Book of Life from the Foundation of the World?

"Only Predestination could have arranged this.

"If you believe the Bible, you must believe in Predestination."

From:

IF YOU BELIEVE THE BIBLE
http://sovereigngrace.ddns.net:81/PughsCorner/PughPredestination.html
THEN YOU MUST BELIEVE IN PREDESTINATION

by Curtis Pugh
 
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