Neanderthal Americans

[jcrawford]

Neanderthal Americans are alive and well, and living in New York City. As evidence and proof of this claim, I shall offer myself up as a modern living specimen and representative of millions of white Anglo-Saxon and Caucasian Americans who are racially descended from historic races of European, Near East and Middle Eastern human beings who have recently been dehumanized in natural history by neo-Darwinist race theorists as a different and separate human 'species.'

Since there is really no scientific evidence that most white Anglo-Saxon Americans of Caucasian and Neanderthal ancestry are really Homo sapiens of any sort, and that such a term is nothing more than a neo-Darwinist 'label' which doesn't stick very well and is easily removed once one discovers, realizes and admits one's own Neanderthal or Asian racial origins, the biological label, 'Homo sapiens' may be reserved and applied to only those humans who racially associate and identify themselves with common ancestors and descendents of African monkeys and apes, in the same way, and to the same degree and extent which homosexuals may self-identify and classify themselves, sexually and biologically, for civil rights purposes.

 

[jcrawford]

I propose to do a little research for evidence supporting the theory that the original ancestors of many Americans were Neanderthals. Eventually, I expect to find geneticists who research individual ancestries and family trees and will scientifically support this claim for purposes of racial/biological classification, personal identification and civil rights status.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/323657.stm

Naturally, I will appreciate any help I get in searching for signs, clues, data and evidence of Neanderthal ancestry which may be found to be scientifically acceptable in a U.S. court of law.

 

[Johnv]

Your bbc story is 6 years old, and quite out of date.


In November 1998 in the Lapedo Valley in Portugal, the fossilised remains of a 4-5 year old boy were discovered. THe remains display an apparent mosaic of Homo Neanderthalensis and Homo Sapien: he has a Sapien chin but the shorter body proportions of a Neanderthal.

The find dates to an age of 24,500 years, a time after Neanderthals are believed to have become extinct, leaving Sapiens the sole surviving human species. The find supports a previously existing theory that Neanderthals and Sapiens might have been capable of interbreeding.

Since this find, DNA analyses of numerous Neanderthals and Sapiens, as well as this find, conclude that, while it does appear to have been possible for Sapiens and Neanderthals to have interbred, modern humans do not carry neanderthal genes. No interbred offspring lineage appears to have survuved to this day.

 

[Jeff Weaver]

 

[jcrawford]

I consider the scientific information contained in this weblink as sufficient evidence to justify and warrent one's holding the opinion and belief that their recent ancestors originally descended from Neanderthal and early/archaic Homo sapiens types of human beings throught Europe, the Near and Middle East.

http://home.entouch.net/dmd/neanev.htm

 

[jcrawford]

Originally posted by Johnv:
Your bbc story is 6 years old, and quite out of date.

In November 1998 in the Lapedo Valley in Portugal, the fossilised remains of a 4-5 year old boy were discovered. THe remains display an apparent mosaic of Homo Neanderthalensis and Homo Sapien: he has a Sapien chin but the shorter body proportions of a Neanderthal.

The find dates to an age of 24,500 years, a time after Neanderthals are believed to have become extinct, leaving Sapiens the sole surviving human species. The find supports a previously existing theory that Neanderthals and Sapiens might have been capable of interbreeding.

Neanderthal Americans may summarily reject the radiometric dating systems and extinct 'species' assumptions used by neo-Darwinists in their theories to invalidate our Neanderthal ancestry now that creation scientists have scientifically invalidated such theoretical neo-Darwinist "beliefs."

Since this find, DNA analyses of numerous Neanderthals and Sapiens, as well as this find, conclude that, while it does appear to have been possible for Sapiens and Neanderthals to have interbred, modern humans do not carry neanderthal genes.

Modern humans don't have any Homo erectus genes either, therefore it is proven that sapiens could not have possibly evolved from erectus.

No interbred offspring lineage appears to have survuved to this day.

Genetic tests which result in a denial of Neanderthal American ancestry are just another form of modern neo-Darwinist racial prejudice and ancestral racism.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by jcrawford:
Genetic tests which result in a denial of Neanderthal American ancestry are just another form of modern neo-Darwinist racial prejudice and ancestral racism.

Oh please. So now it's "racist" to use DNA testing? Tell, me, OJ, what have you been doing since the murder trial?

 

[jcrawford]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jcrawford:
Genetic tests which result in a denial of Neanderthal American ancestry are just another form of modern neo-Darwinist racial prejudice and ancestral racism.

Oh please. So now it's "racist" to use DNA testing? Tell, me, OJ, what have you been doing since the murder trial? </font>[/QUOTE]Consumer DNA tests by private individuals and corporations using commercial labs which trace the ancestry of all non-African racial groups back to Africa without ever finding any evidence of Neanderthal ancestors in the lineage and genealogy of any individuals in the non-African racial groups, are obviously racist, discriminatory, in violation of the civil rights of non-African racial classes and unconstitutional.

If people in racial classes of African origins, ancestry and descent have the right to have their DNA ancestry traced back to descendents of African monkey and ape ancestors, then people in racial classes of non-African origin, ancestry and descent have an equal right to have their ancestral DNA rooted in any other continent where Homo erectus, early/archaic Homo sapiens and Neanderthal fossils are found.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by jcrawford:
Consumer DNA tests by private individuals and corporations using commercial labs which trace the ancestry of all non-African racial groups back to Africa without ever finding any evidence of Neanderthal ancestors in the lineage and genealogy of any individuals in the non-African racial groups, are obviously racist, discriminatory, in violation of the civil rights of non-African racial classes and unconstitutional.

You really don't see the fact that, the more you say it, the less credibility you demonstrate. You have yet to demonstrate how factfinding is racist. Then again, you have continually demonstrated a lack of understanding of what constitutes race. In fact, the more you discuss this topic, the more your lack of understanding becomes obvious.

If people in racial classes of African origins, ancestry and descent have the right to have their DNA ancestry traced back to descendents of African monkey and ape ancestors, then people in racial classes of non-African origin, ancestry and descent have an equal right to have their ancestral DNA rooted in any other continent where Homo erectus, early/archaic Homo sapiens and Neanderthal fossils are found.

Since there is no evidence of modern humans being so related, your point is once again demonstrated to be devoid of credibility.

In fact, your premise is completely false. DNA studies have nothing to do with being related to "African monkey and ape ancestors". DNA testing suggests that all humans alive today are related to one African human ancestor. Once again, blowing a wide gaping hole in your claim, and demonstrating that your claim is nothing more than the product of your own wild imagination.

 

[jcrawford]

Originally posted by Johnv:
You have yet to demonstrate how factfinding is racist. Then again, you have continually demonstrated a lack of understanding of what constitutes race. In fact, the more you discuss this topic, the more your lack of understanding becomes obvious.

Are we to merely assume that you are an expert on what constitutes race and racism, or do you have some academic credentials which may establish you as an authority on race in some people's minds?

DNA studies have nothing to do with being related to "African monkey and ape ancestors".
DNA testing suggests that all humans alive today are related to one African human ancestor.

Yes, and that one African human ancestor is further claimed by neo-Darwinist race theorists to have biologically originated from African monkey and ape ancestors in Africa. The rest of us all descended from wise human beings (African H. sapiens) very much like ourselves. Thus, according to the latest neo-Darwinist 'out of Africa' race theory itself, only African people went through all the human stages of evolution from African monkey and ape ancestors and all modern non-Africans are simply descended from other H. sapiens like themsleves.

Once again, blowing a wide gaping hole in your claim, and demonstrating that your claim is nothing more than the product of your own wild imagination.

It takes a wild imagination to imagine African people evolving from African monkey and ape ancestors in the first place.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by jcrawford:
Are we to merely assume that you are an expert on what constitutes race and racism, or do you have some academic credentials which may establish you as an authority on race in some people's minds?

A clear example of the pot calling the kettle black. Your ignorance on the topic is self evident on your own posts.

Yes, and that one African human ancestor is further claimed by neo-Darwinist race theorists to have biologically originated from African monkey and ape ancestors in Africa.

Completely different topic. In fact, that topic is completely irrelevant to your claims of being related to neanderthals, or of DNA studies in modern humans. Once again, another display of your ignorance on the topic.

The rest of us all descended from wise human beings (African H. sapiens) very much like ourselves.

ALL of us are homo sapiens, and DNA studies suggest that all of us are related to a long dead human in Africa in the past. You completely fail to demonstrate how this is racist. Evidence is evidence, and is not in and of itself racist, unless you're OJ Simpson.

...only African people went through all the human stages of evolution from African monkey and ape ancestors and all modern non-Africans are simply descended from other H. sapiens like themsleves.

Again, your ignorance is so abundant, it needs no comment. According to all current models, all humans alive today came from that same origin, not just "African" people. You're trying to make a false tie-in between race and location. That tie-in is a false premise.

I fail tosee why you have a problem being related to African people. If you have sucha problem, then it seems the only racism in question is your own.

It takes a wild imagination to imagine African people evolving from African monkey and ape ancestors in the first place.

Presuming that's true, it does not excuse your own ignorance and wild imagination on the issue.

 

[jcrawford]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jcrawford:
Are we to merely assume that you are an expert on what constitutes race and racism, or do you have some academic credentials which may establish you as an authority on race in some people's minds?

A clear example of the pot calling the kettle black. Your ignorance on the topic is self evident on your own posts.</font>[/QUOTE]I never called you a black kettle or anything else about you black. I asked you what your claim to expertise on race is and you call me ignorant. You must be the pot.

jc:Yes, and that one African human ancestor is further claimed by neo-Darwinist race theorists to have biologically originated from African monkey and ape ancestors in Africa.

jv: Completely different topic. In fact, that topic is completely irrelevant to your claims of being related to neanderthals, or of DNA studies in modern humans. Once again, another display of your ignorance on the topic.

Seems I am as ignorant as neo-Darwinist theorists are racist. How is the topic of human evolution in Africa "completely irrelevent" to my Neanderthal ancestry? Are you assuming the position that my ancestors did not evolve from African ape and monkey ancestors?

jc:The rest of us all descended from wise human beings (African H. sapiens) very much like ourselves.

jv:ALL of us are homo sapiens, and DNA studies suggest that all of us are related to a long dead human in Africa in the past.

That's a nice "suggestion," but I suggest that only neo-Darwinist race theorists are Homo sapiens even if their followers think they are too.

jv: You completely fail to demonstrate how this is racist. Evidence is evidence, and is not in and of itself racist, unless you're OJ Simpson.

What has OJ Simpson got to do with neo-Darwinist race theories of human evolution out of Africa?

jc:...only African people went through all the human stages of evolution from African monkey and ape ancestors and all modern non-Africans are simply descended from other H. sapiens like themsleves.

jv:Again, your ignorance is so abundant, it needs no comment.

Why bother to point it out at all, then?

jv:According to all current models, all humans alive today came from that same origin, not just "African" people.

I know. That's why I call "all current models," racist. Only African people come from Africa. People like you certainly don't.

jv: You're trying to make a false tie-in between race and location. That tie-in is a false premise.

What's "false" about tying racial origins and geographic "locations" together? That's what most normal Americans do.

jv: I fail tosee why you have a problem being related to African people. If you have sucha problem, then it seems the only racism in question is your own.

I don't have a problem of being related to African people. My own wife is of African origins and my three beautiful children are of mixed African-Neanderthal ancestry. You are the one who seems to being having a problem with OJ.

jc:It takes a wild imagination to imagine African people evolving from African monkey and ape ancestors in the first place.

jvresuming that's true, it does not excuse your own ignorance and wild imagination on the issue. [/QB]

I presume you are of the modern opinion that people should always be shamed before being made to apologize for their ignorance and wild imaginations regarding certain "issues."

 

[fossilman]

Same dead horse.

This is why I hate myself when I come here thinking I might find something interesting to read.

Heavy sigh. . . . .

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by jcrawford:
Are we to merely assume that you are an expert on what constitutes race and racism, or do you have some academic credentials which may establish you as an authority on race in some people's minds?

I'm at least as qualified as you are. The facts discussed in this thread speak for themselves. It should be clear to many who read this that you are not being accurate in your comprension of the facts. That is self evident.

Seems I am as ignorant as neo-Darwinist theorists are racist.

Since you have failed miserably to support that claim, your comment serves to do more damage to your claim.

Are you assuming the position that my ancestors did not evolve from African ape and monkey ancestors?

The "African ape and monkey" topic has nothing to do with this. The correlation is McCarthyist at best.

What has OJ Simpson got to do with neo-Darwinist race theories of human evolution out of Africa?

Do you really need to ask?

Only African people come from Africa. People like you certainly don't.

Says who? Apparantly you have a problem with the idea of your ancestors possibly being from Africa. That certainly suggests who the real racist is.

What's "false" about tying racial origins and geographic "locations" together? That's what most normal Americans do.

Talk about apples and oranges.

My own wife is of African origins and my three beautiful children are of mixed African-Neanderthal ancestry.

You have not provided any evidence to suggest any Neanderthal ancestry. Your premise is based on your lack of knowlege on the topic.

You are the one who seems to being having a problem with OJ.

The OJ team perverted the facts regarding DNA, and so do you, imo.

I presume you are of the modern opinion that people should always be shamed before being made to apologize for their ignorance and wild imaginations regarding certain "issues."

 

[jcrawford]

Originally posted by fossilman:
Same dead horse.

This is why I hate myself when I come here thinking I might find something interesting to read.

Heavy sigh. . . . .

Don't hate yourself, fossilman. Just look at some Neanderthal fossils and learn how to creatively enjoy your Neanderthal heritage and ancestry.

 

[jcrawford]

Originally posted by Johnv:
You have not provided any evidence to suggest any Neanderthal ancestry.

Over 400 fossil specimens of our Neanderthal ancestors have been found as evidence of our Caucasian descent from them.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by jcrawford:
Over 400 fossil specimens of our Neanderthal ancestors have been found as evidence of our Caucasian descent from them.

Mitochondrial DNA and Y-chromosomal DNA confirms that no gene flow occurred between Homo Neanderthalensis and Homo Sapien. Therefore, the two were separate species. This is an undeniable fact, whether you understand it or not.

You also fail to comprehend the fact that the fossil evidence you point to also indicates that Homo Neanderthalensis and Homo Sapien existed at the same time. The difference between the two is that Neanderthalensis went extinct. Sapien did not. Again, it's a quandry as to why you are having such a difficult time comprehending this.

 

[Daisy]

I get the distinct impression that the "African" part bothers him more than the "ape" part.

 

[jcrawford]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jcrawford:
Over 400 fossil specimens of our Neanderthal ancestors have been found as evidence of our Caucasian descent from them.

Mitochondrial DNA and Y-chromosomal DNA confirms that no gene flow occurred between Homo Neanderthalensis and Homo Sapien. Therefore, the two were separate species. This is an undeniable fact, whether you understand it or not.</font>[/QUOTE]Har, har, har and another hardy guffaw from all my Neanderthal brothers and sisters. You don't expect us to swallow that neo-Darwinist Homo sapiens racial crap whole, do you? "Whether we understand it or not," indeed. What racial supremacy and scientific audacity will you assume next, Darwin's child? Just because Darwin rejected his own genetic forbears in favor of African progenitors doesn't mean that other Anglo-Saxon descendents of Caucasian Neanderthals have to go along with his racial theories of human descent from African ape and monkey ancestors.

You also fail to comprehend the fact that the fossil evidence you point to also indicates that Homo Neanderthalensis and Homo Sapien existed at the same time. The difference between the two is that Neanderthalensis went extinct. Sapien did not. Again, it's a quandry as to why you are having such a difficult time comprehending this.

Fail? Fail to comprehend? More failure? First you accuse us Neanderthals of failing to successfully interbreed with your pretty Cro-Magnon ancestors in caves and now you accuse us of "failing to comprehend" your neo-Darwinist race theories about our racial extinction. Grrr. I'm starting to get my Neanderthal dander up upon reading your puny Homo sapiens sapiens diatribes about the so-called superior wisdom of your special ilk.

 

[jcrawford]

Originally posted by Daisy:
I get the distinct impression that the "African" part bothers him more than the "ape" part.

You've got your "distinct impressions" backwards, Daisy, since my wife is of African descent but in no way "part ape."