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Need some help please

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by MargoWriter, Mar 3, 2005.

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  1. MargoWriter

    MargoWriter New Member

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    I wasn't sure where to post this. But I need some help.

    Could some of you sage ppl advise me on how to show a person from scripture that baptism does not save us?

    There are verses that confuse ppl sometimes and they assume that the scriptures teach baptism saves.

    Any good fundie web links or easy 2 read book suggestions would be appreciated as well.

    Thanks. [​IMG]
     
    #1 MargoWriter, Mar 3, 2005
  2. Scott_Bushey

    Scott_Bushey <img src=/scott.jpg>

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    Eph 2:8,9
    Titus 3:5

    The thief on the cross beside Jesus was not baptised. Elect babies that perish are never baptised. Death bed experiences cannot be baptised.
     
    #2 Scott_Bushey, Mar 3, 2005
  3. MargoWriter

    MargoWriter New Member

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    Takin down all verses, compiling, yes. thank you.

    The problem is, this person will go right back to the verses that say "and be baptised" or similar ( I'm not in position to get them right now, but I'm sure you know what I mean) . . . they say I'm ignoring those verses. But I'm not.
     
    #3 MargoWriter, Mar 3, 2005
  4. Scott_Bushey

    Scott_Bushey <img src=/scott.jpg>

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    Is this person associated w/ the Church of Christ?
     
    #4 Scott_Bushey, Mar 3, 2005
  5. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    The early church was under persecution and did not seperate baptism and salvation as we do. Baptism was the proof of their commitment to Christ. It was declaring Chriust as Lord. By declaring Christ as Lord meant you were renouncing the emperor as your lord. By doing this the emperor could have had you executed.

    The thief on the cross was not baptized. Even Paul says that he did not come to baptize but to preach the gospel.

    1 Peter 3:21, 22 addresses the issue of what the baptism is that saves. "Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him."

    It is not the getting dunked in the water that saves you "but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."
     
    #5 gb93433, Mar 3, 2005
  6. Scott_Bushey

    Scott_Bushey <img src=/scott.jpg>

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    Baptismal regeneration is a work and denies the historical orthodox position of justification by faith alone. It's ridiculous. The only people whom believe this are consdidered cults. Get out Walter Martin's book Kingdom of the Cults when you talk with this person; show them that the position is cultic.
     
    #6 Scott_Bushey, Mar 3, 2005
  7. MargoWriter

    MargoWriter New Member

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    Not sure what church he is associated with--he's in UK. We've had some good talks and we agree on everything except the baptism issue. Pretty crazy--down to standards and seperation.

    TY gb, good stuff.

    But these ppl take taht same verse and tell you that baptisim IS the appeal to God. They look at you and say, it says, "baptism now saves you." They say it's clear as day.

    It frustrates me . . . Sometimes I get thinking and almost wonder if they are right. But thank the Lord he always renews my mind with the truth. For by grace are we saved!

    Any thoughts on this will help me. I'm not talking to ppl like that unprepared again. It's so hard, and I'm vulnerable.
     
    #7 MargoWriter, Mar 3, 2005
  8. MargoWriter

    MargoWriter New Member

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    Scott, thank you. I'll look up that book--buy a copy when I get the chance.

    God bless you all for your help.
     
    #8 MargoWriter, Mar 3, 2005
  9. Scott_Bushey

    Scott_Bushey <img src=/scott.jpg>

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    I promise you, they are C.o. C. I have had the same conversation.....The doctrine of election dismantles any works related salvation. God elects and saves according to His good pleasure alone; even the infant that dies prior to being baptized.
     
    #9 Scott_Bushey, Mar 3, 2005
  10. MargoWriter

    MargoWriter New Member

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    Amen, Scott.
    But they tell you that Baptism isn't a work because while you are physically baptised, something happens to you spiritually.
    Makes no sense to me, and I believe in the doctrine of election--that Jesus Christ found me and drew me to himself. I never would have come to him myself .. . I am a mere sinner. And now a sinner saved by grace.
     
    #10 MargoWriter, Mar 3, 2005
  11. MargoWriter

    MargoWriter New Member

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    If any one else has good suggestions for books, web sites, etc. on this topic please let me know.

    I'm trying to do a study and compile some things to share with this person.

    Need stuff that's not too hard to understand though. I've got a brain, praise the Lord, but I'm only human. ;)
     
    #11 MargoWriter, Mar 4, 2005
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