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Need some help...

Discussion in 'Music Ministry' started by Filmproducer, Mar 29, 2006.

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  1. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

    OK, I am working a film, as many of you may know. As of right now we have a trailer cut and ready to be put up on the film's website. The problem is there is NO music behind it, as of yet. We had originally planned to have it scored, same as the film, but we are in crunch time, so I am having to explore other options. Are there any websites out there that have any type of instrumental music in the public domain? I guess any music in the public domain would be okay. I am not a "music" person, so I really don't know how to articulate exactly what I need. Basically the trailer is a little over 2 and a half minutes. (a full theatrical trailer) I need to find at least three appropriate songs/instrumentals/whatever to put behind it. Four would be ideal. If anyone has any suggestions, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys!

    Sharon
     
    #1 Filmproducer, Mar 29, 2006
  2. PJ

    PJ Active Member
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    Could you be more specific about the type of music you're interested in? Are upbeat or slow moving songs preferred?
     
    #2 PJ, Mar 29, 2006
  3. Joshua Rhodes

    Joshua Rhodes <img src=/jrhodes.jpg>

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    Could you be more specific FP? What exactly are you looking for? What kind of emotion are you trying to elicit?
     
    #3 Joshua Rhodes, Mar 29, 2006
  4. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan New Member

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    Is the film already scored?

    You could cross-fade the orignal score music of the original scenes used in the trailer...

    You would adjust the time of the Cross fade depending upon the length of the scenes.

    If an original scene is too short for the Cross Fade skip that part of the music and Cross fade through the short scene...

    That should get you started...

    I always thought Trailers were made from the finished film or at least short sections of it about the same time the final edit was done.

    This would be to prevent creating a trailer with deleted scenes in it...

    If the music edit hasn't been done on the film...

    Have you preselected any music for the film itself?

    Also, you have to trust someone with the trailer to help select music for it...

    I mean, at this point we don't even know what the film is about... At least I don't... [​IMG]

    Some composers compose to the film as they watch it...

    It's a complicated process I know and different director/producer combos have different orders of putting stuff together depending upon whether they are using a new Orignal Score or canned music...

    Mike Sr.
     
    #4 SpiritualMadMan, Mar 29, 2006
  5. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

    To answer all the questions:

    1. No, the film is not scored, yet. We are still looking for someone to do the score. The score will be started using the "rough cut", or rather, a cut that has not been color corrected and does not have some of the ending special effects. (Something that would not affect the music edit)

    2. Because the film has not been scored we do not have any music. Trailers are almost always scored separately, although it is usually "shorter" versions of the film score. Also, you will find that a lot of trailers will use different takes of scenes in the actual movie, and some films even have deleted scenes in the trailer. This can happen for a variety of reasons, but it usually has something to do with changes the distributor makes, especially where indie films are concerned. Our trailer has been edited separately from the actual film for more dramatic effect.

    3. as to the music I am looking for...hmmm... that is a good question. I am the first to admit I do not have a musical ear. Whatever is done, it needs to match the mood of the trailer. I will post the synopsis at the bottom, this is found on our website also. The film is a drama. It is a story of the human condition and how we act, and react, to each other when religion and politics are involved. The film is a Christian film, and is done from a Christian perspective. It is entitled Sodom and Gomorrah. It is an emotional, socially relevant film.

    OK, back to what I am looking for... Well, to put it simply, the trailer can be "broken" down into segments. The "first" segment would be something uplifting or upbeat, not necessarily with a beat, though. Does that make sense? William, the director/producer, would ideally like something recognizable in the Christian market. The "second" segment is when the audience starts to see that something is not quite right and the feeling escalates. It is more of a "shocked", "sad" type music. The "third" segment would be more along the lines of angry contrasted with sad. Finally, the trailer ends in a series of quick cuts, so the music would be escalating, tense, and end abruptly. Ideally that is what I am looking for, and I hope I made sense. I realize that we are going to have to work to make things fit, but like I said, at this point I need to move. Normally this would have been taken care of long ago, but as with all productions, things have come up and changed our timetable.

    Once again, any suggestions would be appreciated. If more information is needed please PM me for specifics.

    Sharon

    Sodom and Gomorrah the Movie website
     
    #5 Filmproducer, Mar 29, 2006
  6. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan New Member

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    I am not a composer...

    I would think that if you check out some Mozart (Maybe Bach, too) you might find some of the Uplifting everything is cool music...

    Beethoven might offer some suspensful and angry stuff...

    As might Vivaldi's The Four Seasons

    Rachmoninoff also has some really strong themes...

    As does Wagner... Though I am not sure Flight of the Valkyries would be a good choice as it is so recognizable...

    The Classics are a good choice when time and money are short as the music is public domain.

    Though the performances are not...

    Tons of Midis exist, too.

    You can do a search at www.vanbasco.com for each composer of interest and get a sense of what a *real* score might sound like...

    Be warned though that there is a rather wide range of quality with 'free' midi files.

    Dr. Bob would be probably the best person on the forum to help select from the Classic as he is far more current than I...

    But, that's where I'd start.

    Borrow all the "Greatest Of" CD's of the Classics you can find and start listening...

    Once you've familiarized yourself with the overall scope of what's available...

    Then segment by segment watch a segment and think of what music you have just listened to fits best...

    Doesn't have to be a perfect fit... Just has to get you close enough to be able to share what you think is close...

    If you don't want a "Classics" sound then there are many other of forms of music available...

    Including reborn classics done with electronics or a five piece stage band.

    But, the "feel" of the Classics will help us know where your head is at...

    There are a lot of "Rock Ballards" that may fit, too.

    But, I am not sure I'd want to pay a royalty to Kiss to get to use "Beth". Which from the synopsis might actually fit in the movie with or without a few lyric changes...

    The Christian Rock Group Bloodgood had a good Rock Ballard on one of their CD... The one I lost of course...

    I'll keep throwing stuff out until you tell me to shut up... :D

    Mike Sr.
     
    #6 SpiritualMadMan, Mar 29, 2006
  7. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan New Member

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    here's a midi site...

    http://members.tripod.com/~rosemck1/jukebox-classical.html

    IE should play then Ok. But, not with the best fidelity...

    The Bach Fugue In D-Minor has a place almost 60 seconds in where you can almost here someone sneaking around...

    Also check out the Toccata....

    You will seldom use a whole piece but pick a theme snippet and the movie band will embellish and expand on it...

    Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata could be used for a time of contemplation of reflection...

    And, you will not be able to fail to recognise Hanbera from Carmen by Bizet

    Edvard Grieg's Anitra's Dance is interesting, too.

    Handel's arrival of the Queen of Sheba may be a good joyful opener

    And, you'll recognize the William Tell Overture as the Lone ranger Theme (If you're old enough!)

    And, this is only one site!

    Mike Sr.
     
    #7 SpiritualMadMan, Mar 29, 2006
  8. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan New Member

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    BTW: With my Midi System I can change the instruments and record the result to .WAV, MP-3 or CD

    Mike Sr.
     
    #8 SpiritualMadMan, Mar 29, 2006
  9. ASLANSPAL

    ASLANSPAL New Member

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    Important to get the ball rolling and find parameters ..what sounds good and fits and what does not...I like to listen to a lot of previews at cdbaby ..great music that in my humble opinion
    is better than mass marketed tunes that we are forced fed..sad that good music never sees the light of day.

    So lets explore!
    LINK Aeron cdbaby

    LINK BRAD COHEN like the bass sound at the start of this tune

    more brad cohen

    even more I like the ukelale feel to this song

    Richard Beeston

    <a href="http://cdbaby.com/cd/beeston" target="_blank">Richard
    Beeston</a>


    I wish you all the success FilmProducer hope this jump starts your creative mind.
     
    #9 ASLANSPAL, Mar 30, 2006
  10. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

    Wow, thanks for all the advice and links. I am going to start listening to the stuff at these links and I'll let you all know what I think. At the risk of sounding completely ignorant, what is a MIDI? [​IMG] :confused:

    I never thought about classical music, because everything that I have is copyrighted. It didn't even register that it was the performances. :rolleyes: I'm not sure what I will find, or how it will mesh with the images on the screen, but it is a starting point. At any rate I am going to start listening to stuff at these links.

    There is no possible way to use any copyrighted material, or anything that we would have to pay a royalty on. Time is of the essence, and I know from experience that I would not get a reply in time to get the trailer on the website. It took six months to even receive a reply requesting more information on using the NIV in the film. By the time the request made it's rounds, we had decided to stick with the KJV, and shoot according to schedule. Royalties in most cases are outrageously expensive for films, so that is also out of the question.
     
    #10 Filmproducer, Mar 30, 2006
  11. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

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    FP, I know absolutely nothing about what you all are talking about. I just wanted to wish you luck on the film. Let us know how it goes.
     
    #11 PastorSBC1303, Mar 30, 2006
  12. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    At the risk of sounding completely ignorant, what is a MIDI?

    MIDI stands for Musical Instrument Digital Interface. It's a standard data format used by electronic musical instruments to interchange information.

    MIDI tells an instrument how to play music: what notes, how loud, and for how long (along with other information of this type).

    On the other hand, it doesn't specify how the notes are to sound. That is hardware-specific. There's a standard called General MIDI that specifies a consistent mapping of instrument patches, so that any general MIDI instrument will play a piano when a piano is expected, and so forth.

    Since the hardware, not the data file, generates the sound, quality varies from synthesizer to synthesizer.

    Most computer sound cards support MIDI and General MIDI, so you can download and listen to MIDI files on your computer.

    I never thought about classical music, because everything that I have is copyrighted. It didn't even register that it was the performances.

    Don't forget that even if a piece of music is in the public domain, any recording of it is still probably copyrighted. This includes MIDI files, which record a specific performance. Old recordings from the 1930-40s are just starting to come into the public domain, and I suspect that most of those are not of suitable quality for a movie (they were generally recorded directly to a record).
     
    #12 Ransom, Mar 30, 2006
  13. ASLANSPAL

    ASLANSPAL New Member

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    Film producer of course you will have to interface with the creative artist but a lot of these artist at cdbaby are practically starving or are not "the chosen ones"...notice todays movies use a lot of baby boomer music from the past you see it in a lot movies and on tv commercials.

    Example just exploring today at cdbaby I discover this 18 year old artist with a 4 octave
    range who is a pretty good song writer.

    LINK 18 yr old Jackie Cole from chicago...why isn't she on American Idol?? this is little more r&b and soulfull..again build those parameters.


    Now go 180 degrees LINK Rockabilly with Miss Mary Ann & Ragtime Wranglers ;) have not heard the term Sugar booger for oh so long.

    LINK more rockabilly


    Old salvation army standards ..updated by this group
     
    #13 ASLANSPAL, Mar 31, 2006
  14. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan New Member

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    Thanks Ransom...

    It *never* occured to me that FP wouldn't know what Midi was or how useful it could be to the initial production process... Doh! :D

    And, it's true that Midi *can* be copyrighted.

    Even Classical pieces...

    That's why one has to be careful when using Downloaded Midi's to use a program that reveals any Text or Copyright information...

    This is because some people have bought Copyrighted Midi's then posted them for download...

    However, a lot of Midis are posted by Midi enthusiaists who have created them from scratch...

    Anyway, most PC's will play a Midi file on a site without any changes...

    I think there is a setting in IE that allows or disallows playing music, not sure though. It should be on by default.

    The Instruments may not "sound" right... But, you'll get the musical idea behind the piece.

    The your own band can play it by ear...

    Or, it can be orchestrated on a "proper" Midi System...

    (Hosanna Integrity apparently thinks a "proper" midi system needs to reproduce at least a 128 tracks! Which is why I've only bought one of their disks.)

    As for music from the 20's 30's or 40's...

    If it is in the Public Domain you own band can play it... (Obviating the quality issue with Vinyl.)

    Or, there is probably a Midi File of it somewhere.

    I've got a ton of archival music from the Big Band Era in Midid Format

    If you don't have a band... Check out your local High School, Colleges and Community Bands...

    Many have full orchestras and Stage Bands, too.

    Mike Sr.
     
    #14 SpiritualMadMan, Mar 31, 2006
  15. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

    I want to thank you all again for the all the information and links you provided. They were EXTREMELY helpful. I am VERY PLEASED to announce that we were able to get the music we needed for the trailer. :applause: :praise: We ended up choosing a modified piano rendition of "It is Well With My Soul". The composer did a beautiful job. We were in the studio last Tuesday night recording, sent the recordings to our editor on Wednesday, and will receive the finished trailer tomorrow at 10:30 am! I'll keep you all posted as to when the trailer can be viewed on our website. Our web designer says it will probably take him a week or so to get it up.

    Once again THANK YOU!!!!! :thumbsup:

    Sharon :wavey:
     
    #15 Filmproducer, May 30, 2006
  16. Joshua Rhodes

    Joshua Rhodes <img src=/jrhodes.jpg>

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    yay, shannon! i can't wait to see it!
     
    #16 Joshua Rhodes, May 30, 2006
  17. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

    I just wanted to let you guys know I put a thread in the Women's Public Forum discussing the trailer. Thank you guys so much for all of your help! Hope you enjoy!!

    Sharon :wavey: :flower:

    BB Link:

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=30196
     
    #17 Filmproducer, Jun 6, 2006
  18. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    looks like a pretty good movie! can't wait to see it!

    God bless.
     
    #18 gekko, Jun 6, 2006
  19. Milady

    Milady New Member

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    I say the trailer, it looks interesting. Although I had a hard time seeing two guys almost kiss in the trailer........YECH!!
    Milady
     
    #19 Milady, Jun 7, 2006
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