Need your opinion

[xdisciplex]

Please tell me your opinion about the following quotes. Do they appear secterian or strange to you?

My dear ones, you have to see that the churches in Korea are wrong. They may be right but only according to their own standards. But they are different to the bible. The bible clearly says: "All humans have sinned and lost the glory and they have become righteous without doing anything for it because of his grace through the redemption, which has happened through Jesus Christ." (no bible verse mentioned )
When God has said we are righteous then we are righteous. This is how it is and not different. Let us read Romans 8:33 " Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. " Has God said in the bible that we are righteous or not? The bible says very clear that God has said we are righteous. Even though God has said we are righteous are we still sinners? The one who says this has a different heart than God. Some think it's humble when you say "God forgive me my sins" But this is an insult to the cross of Jesus. It's like saying "Jesus, even though you died on the cross you could not wash my sins away, please wash them away now."
This means you DO NOT believe in the power of the cross. Because many humans have been deceived by Satan and their thoughts are taken captive by Satan they remain in sin according to their opinion. But no matter where we read in the bible it says that we are without sin, holy and righteous.
Hebrew 10,17 says: "And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more."
God said he washed our sins away and will not remember them anymore.
Now do you want to follow your thoughts or God's word? It's your choice.
Do you want to trust yourself or God's word? Who believes that he is righteous because God has said he is righteous is the one who believes in God.

My dear ones, when the heart of Jesus comes in you then you don't have to struggle not to sin anymore, it's really so.But when you visit a church without the heart of Christ this will not work no matter how hard you try not to sin.

A reporter asked me: What is the difference between your church and other churches? People in other churches say they are sinners, even if they got to church, I say I am righteous, because I believe in Jesus and my sins are forgiven.

These quotes are from a guy called Pastor Ock-Soo Park who has a huge organization called IYF. They recruit students and send them out to become missionaries which they try to evangelize people and these people are of course supposed to come to their own churches which are called Good News Baptist churches.
I feel like they might be a cult.

 

[BobRyan]

Sounds like they have an unlimited resevoir of "make up your own bible" by taking snippets and tiny pieces mixing in their own bible-like language and presenting the mixture of the two AS IF God was speaking.

Many of the Mormon books do the same thing - no need to go to some Korean Cults to find this.

But simply "saying" that they are wrong or calling them a "cult" does not prove anything "to them".

The principle of "Sola Scriptura" is the opposite of "make stuff up mixing in scripture snippets to make it sound good".

But that method certainly was popular in the dark ages. So certainly they have some "orthodox practices" to reference when they practice that error.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Jim1999]

Sounds more like a language barrier to me, and nothing more. The organization is sound in itself, similar to InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, or Youth For Christ.

It would be like me trying to speak German or Chinese.

I remember German classes many, many years ago, when the master explained a German trying to speak English on Jack and Jill went up the hill..........."und Jack and Jill fell down the hill, and the pail of water...." A literal translation, rather than correct English..."And Jack and Jill fell down the hill and the pail came tumbling after........."

If that makes sense.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

I didn't see any "Chain of Command" listed on the "About Us" page...

Before I get involved with a group I want to know who they are ammenable to, or at least who's on their board...

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Also, as a charitable organization... I'd want to know if they subscribe to something like the ECFA (Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability)...

Or, what the overhead ratio is... Percentage taken in to what actually gets to the field...

Lastly, I am automatically suspicious of *any* group that preaches that *all* others are wrong.

Especially without qualifying it with specific quotes and rebuttal scriptures...

Mike Sr.

 

[edifish]

Try the spirits

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Your words are wise and true because they are not your words. If you try the spirits, whether they be of God, you will know who is a false prophet.

If my bias shows, I hope it doesn't mean you will distrust me w/o trying the spirit. Having said that, I wonder if you want to know what I have to say or if you've already decided based on what others have said.

Many people "believe" in God the same way. Instead of believing the Bible as the Word of God, they try to understand God through their thoughts and observations. When they can't understand, they ask other people. But what's shown many times in the Bible and what is still happening today is very few are trying the spirit/standing in front of God. Where the Word matches them, they accept it and believe it. Where it doesn't, they don't.

So many people go on what they've heard from other people that they've never tried the spirit. How can you know what is spirit and what is not? God requires us to deny ourselves. Satan does not. It may seem like saying I'm righteous and not a sinner is not denying myself. But I ask you, what's easier to believe/say? You may say I'm righteous but I'm still a sinner. How can you be both? This takes no faith. We are righteous by faith. Can the faith that says I'm righteous say I'm a sinner? We were surely all born in sin, but that's why we must be born again to righteousness.

If I'm a born again sinner, what's the diffrerence before and after? There's no difference because there is no faith. I didn't become a sinner by commiting sin so why am I a sinner if I sin after being saved? By one man's disobedience many were made sinners and by one man's obedience many were made righteous, not righteous untill we sin again. God did the work to make us all righteous so all that remains is whether we believe it or not. Therefore, the only reason people go to hell is that they didn't believe that Jesus took away their sin. We are righteous by faith and faith alone. If we have truly recieved Him, we are not born of blood, the will of the flesh or the will of man but of God.

I would never ever look upon myself and say that I am righteous but rather that I am holy and blameless and unreproveable in his sight. My sight is the problem. "If you were blind you should have no sin, but now you say I see therefore your sin remaineth" John 9:41

We send the "Good News" which is the sermons of Pastor Park printed in the New York Times twice monthly to Baptist churches in the state of Georgia. We get calls either telling us to not send them or asking why we sent it. The next question is "what kind of church are you?" i.e. denomination. When I tell them we're Baptist, they seem to be satisfied and leave off with "well, I was just wondering why you sent it". They are so suspicious because they don't try the spirit whether it's of God. Since they don't actually read it, they have to ask me these things. Inside of their thoughts they cannot understand our hearts. If they tried to understand our heart and why we sent it they might be thankful. We are so happy God poured grace upon us to put the gospel in the New York Times that we wanted to share it with other churches and maybe even encourage them that it's possible to do these kinds of things by faith. Who else is doing this kind of thing?

And is it really so burdensome to recieve this mail? We are the ones who are paying for it and working to send it. How many of them have ever called someone and asked them why or to not send something before? I've never recieved anything in the mail and thought to call the people who sent it and ask them why or to stop.

If someone sent me a sermon that was printed in the New York Times of all places, I might wonder at first but then I might also think "Wow! Someone's putting gospel sermons in the New York Times! This is so encouraging! Our church can benefit from this! People who read this might be convicted and come to our church! (Okay, not many people read the New York Times in Georgia^.^) We receive grace through the Good News Mission!" If we are all the same spiritual body, why doesn't anyone think this way? They just whisper in the dark and fear to actually find out what we believe.

How can you be so suspicious without trying to find out from us? The only one on this post who seems to want to suspend judgement is Jim. Yes, try the spirits. Take your own, I mean God's advice and you will do well not just for yourself but for the body of Christ.

Eddie

 

[BobRyan]

Now let's try God's Word to the saints for a change.

Hebrews 12
1 Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us[/b], let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles[/b] us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith[/b], who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame[/b], and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
4 You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin;[/b]


1Cor 9
23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;[/b]
27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached (the Gospel) to others, I myself will not be disqualified

Romans 8
12 So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh
13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live[/b].
14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again[/b], but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "" Abba! Father!''
16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God[/b],

 

[tragic_pizza]

Pretty colors as usual, Bob, but what are you trying to prooftext... I mean, say?

:laugh:

The Scriptures clearly entreat us to confess our sins. The preacher who is quoted sounds like he only read a little Reformed theology, enough to get it kind of wrong.


Our sins have already been forgiven -- the Cross is sufficient -- however, our sin has, and in many ways continues to, separate us from relationship with our Redeemer and Creator. Thus confession and forgiveness on a continual basis is vital.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Someone needs to read the Word. The very first words from the person quoted by the OP was

The bible clearly says: "All humans have sinned and lost the glory

The Bible does not clearly say this at all. It says

Romans 3:23 (KJV) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Sinful man has not lost the glory. Man, because of one man's sin, was made sinful and never had God's glory.

 

[DQuixote]

Thank you, Eddie and Jim.
:thumbs:


xdx .........

http://www.lesfeldick.org/lesqa-a.html

Don't argue it, don't debate it, don't judge it, just study it. Period. You need to settle in to one Q&A before you tackle anything new. Go with the link, don't look back, just go with it. There's a month of study in there if you put your heart into it. Along with e-Sword in a good translation, you'll always have a ready reference. You're at bat. Knock a home run. And take your meds.

 

[xdisciplex]

Basically it's all about this statement here:

My dear ones, when the heart of Jesus comes in you then you don't have to struggle not to sin anymore, it's really so.But when you visit a church without the heart of Christ this will not work no matter how hard you try not to sin.

Is this correct? I don't think so. This is why I think they are a cult. If you don't have to struggle anymore then this means that you don't sin anymore, right? But this is nonsense. I once had the pleasure of being confronted with a pastor from this organization and he said exactly the same stuff. He tried to tell me that I'm not born again because I'm still in the darkness and struggling with sin, while he on the other hand is in the light and not struggling with sin anymore. He said that Jesus fights for him. I asked him if this means that he never sins and he said no. Okay.... this makes a whole lotta sense. So Jesus fights for him and he doesn't have to struggle anymore but he still sins. I guess this means that Jesus is not fighting enough...

 

[BobRyan]

Pretty colors as usual, Bob, but what are you trying to prooftext... I mean, say?

:laugh:

The Scriptures clearly entreat us to confess our sins. The preacher who is quoted sounds like he only read a little Reformed theology, enough to get it kind of wrong.


Our sins have already been forgiven -- the Cross is sufficient -- however, our sin has, and in many ways continues to, separate us from relationship with our Redeemer and Creator. Thus confession and forgiveness on a continual basis is vital.

err umm... precisely. It is IN the texts.

 

[Tom Butler]

So many people go on what they've heard from other people that they've never tried the spirit. How can you know what is spirit and what is not? God requires us to deny ourselves. Satan does not. It may seem like saying I'm righteous and not a sinner is not denying myself. But I ask you, what's easier to believe/say? You may say I'm righteous but I'm still a sinner. How can you be both? This takes no faith. We are righteous by faith. Can the faith that says I'm righteous say I'm a sinner? We were surely all born in sin, but that's why we must be born again to righteousness.

This reflects basic misundestanding of imputed righteousness. The scriptures say that none of us is righteious (See Romans3), even believers. When we are saved, God imputes Christ's righteousness to us.

If you no longer struggle with sin, good for you. But I identify with Paul, who griped about his own struggle in Romans 7. Even when he agreed that God's law was right, he still couldn't keep it.

It ill behooves any believer to go around bragging about his righteousness.
We are not made righteous by faith; we are declared righteous (or just). That's a mighty big difference.