Bro. Williams
New Member
wow, I never knew so many sinless people... or liars...
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"Never Saved To Begin With"
- Thread starter Iamodd4God
- Start date
There’s no such thing as “once saved always saved” and the Early Church never taught such theology. The “never saved to begin with” phrase is the cop-out answer from the OSAS camp, because they simply can’t think for themselves.
Bottom line is that we that call ourselves Christians were saved are being saved and we all have the hope of being saved. It all depends upon what state our soul is in when we die.
IF OSAS is theologically correct and the “never saved to begin with” is a viable response, then how do any of us truly know that the words we repeated at the altar actually took hold…
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Bottom line is that we that call ourselves Christians were saved are being saved and we all have the hope of being saved. It all depends upon what state our soul is in when we die.
IF OSAS is theologically correct and the “never saved to begin with” is a viable response, then how do any of us truly know that the words we repeated at the altar actually took hold…
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Brother Bob
New Member
Would you please tell me why God's children cannot keep from committing adultery or lying? Is it a given we have to lie? I put more confidence in the "Grace of God" than to not be able to keep from adultery or lying. You say, you lie but are not a liar, because of the blood. I am sure Jesus is made proud by that.
Tell me one thing, why did John the Baptist, instead of losing his head, tell the King if you will accept Christ, then it will be lawful for you to have your brother Phillip's wife? I mean, if all those who hang around the bars and whore houses knew, all they had to do is accept Christ, then all will be alright, seems to me they all would. But they know better, and they are sinners.
The rich man in hell wanted his five brethren warned so they repented and stopped sinning so they did not come to that place. He advocated a better doctrine of "repentance" than I hear from some on here. IMO but thats just me, what do I know.
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Bro. Williams
New Member
Agnus_Dei said:
The early church after Paul?
My soul is saved to the uttermost, as it will be for eternity... hence eternal salvation.
bbob said:
huh ?
Brother Bob, must be some mistake. I have only one post as far as I know, and that was addressed to ken, not to you.
leastways, when I first clicked on this thread, it didn't have that little thing whatchacall it that says I have posted on this thread.
or was I mistaken.
can you show me the post I did that you are referring to ?
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charles_creech78
New Member
Boy it don't amaze me how many people sin.
Bro. Williams
New Member
Brother Bob said:
1. For we are still joined to this earthly flesh which is ever sinful.
2. Romans 3:4
3. Romans 6 (on the John and bars and whore house things).
4. I preach repentance as well. I do not preach the false doctrine of the Nazarenes, in which one can supposedly cease from sinning.
5. I will say, it would be possibe, even if it were only according to Phil. 4:13, but, I have never met a soul that has committed that to 100% of their lives, day in and day out.
6. Just because one believes in OSAS does not mean that we advocate sin, it means we tell others to repent of their sin and at the same time, to accept the promises that we are in the beloved.
Bro. Williams
New Member
charles_creech78 said:
Me either.
charles_creech78
New Member
Do people know what a just man is and what a rightess man is? Do you thank a rightess man goes out and commits adultery? Do you know what a good man is? It says in the bible a good man steps are ordered of the Lord. Do you thank God ordered him to commit adultery? Be not ignorant nor deceaved. A rightess man is rightess and a just man are just and there steps are of the Lord. Look up the word sinner and then look up sin. If you sin then you are of the devil. It did not say if you sin you are of GOD. God is not sin. God is holy and just and them that are born of God are holy and just. If I myself committed adultery there will be one place for me after this life and that is the lake of fire. If I lie there is only one place for me and that is the lake of fire I would need to repent and ask God to forgive me for it and be born again not of a corruptuble seed but of a incorruptuble by the word of God that liveth and abideth forever. Satan will not mess with you as long as you are doing what he wants you to do. So go ahead and sinn and do what he want you to do . I will give more scripture on this latter.
Charles, I hate sin. It is sickening to me to sin against my Lord and Savior, yet I will tell you that I have gotten angry and said something hurtful to someone that I love. This has happened since I became saved. I asked for their forgiveness and God's. Does this mean that I'm not saved because I sinned?charles_creech78 said:
Brother Bob
New Member
Amy; I know your post is not to me, but what you are speaking of is not what we are talking about. I sin too, that sin Jesus talked about that is not unto death. You think I don't get angry, sure I do, but its not adultery.
Brother Bob
New Member
Pinoy; I am sorry, I got the posters messed up. Terrible sorry for that, please forgive me.
BBob
BBob
Bro. Williams
New Member
charles_creech78 said:
So was David righteous before or after his adultery?
What about Paul? Was he righteous before of after he disobeyed the Holy Spirit.. what was it, three times?
What a devilish thing to say Charles, and quite contrary to the Scriptures. Shame on you, you should repent.
charles_creech78
New Member
There is a sin unto death and there is a sin not unto death. He that is born of God cannot commit sin for he cannot because his seed remaneth in him and he can not sin.So there are two sin that a person can make. One unto death and one not unto death. Them that are born of God cannot sin unto death. They can sin a sin not unto death. Paul said what wrench man that I am. He was talking about the flesh. the outward man. There is a inward man and there is a outward man. That inward man is Christ Jesus the Lord and we know in Christ was NO sin. There for he that is born of God cannot sinn because his seed remaneth in him and he CANNOT SIN because he is born of God, that is if you have the spirit of Christ in you. That seed is Jesus Christ. Who keepeth you from all of these things.There is a outward man that sins like what you said you did. Put he will come into subjection with the inward man which is Christ. Like I said before a good man steps are ordered of the lord and that good man is Christ. We will sin in the flesh because sin is condemed in the flesh. But the inward man will bring him into subjection of Gods laws and he cannot do what he did before he was born again. the lust of the flesh and you can read what the lust of the flesh is in galations and it also tells you what the fruit of the spirit is. See you came into subjection to the inward man when you prayed to God and asked that person to forgive you.
charles_creech78
New Member
Let me tell you something I do not NEED A MAN TO TELL ME TO REPENT. I DO NOT NEED TO TELL YOU TO STOP SINNING. And I am not going to tell you to stop sinning. Brother willaim you need to read what I wrote again. And stop trieing to start a fight with me because I will not be ignorant in what satan is all about. I was addressing them that thinks it is alright to sin. Well if they want to be ignorant let them be ignorant and sin. Because they have been told. They are ignorant of what sin does to a person. Do you thank satan will tell them that sinning is wrong. If I told them that it is wrong to sin and they have it in there mind that they are going to heaven because they are washed in the blood of the lamb, then why would they stop doing it. Let us do it. We are going to heaven anyway. But I am hear to say to you, you reap what you sow. If you sow to the flesh then you reap corruption and sin is corruption.
Iamodd4God
New Member
Amy.G said:
Let me ask you a question. When you sin, is it God's will you are fulfilling or is it the devil's will? The "EVIL" the apostle Paul spoke of in Romans 7:19 was that evil God's will or the devil's will?
Now let's see what Jesus said...
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
...according to Jesus the Son of God, people who are of the devil will do what the devil wants. This is further supported in 1John 3:8 where the apostle John writes: "He that committeth sin is of the devil." and in 1John 3:10 where the apostle John writes how the children of God, and the children of the devil are made known by what they do. So when the apostle Paul did the "EVIL" he didn't want to do, was he acting as a child of God or a child of the devil?
The debate over the passages of Scripture you quoted above (Romans 7:19-25) is whether the apostle Paul was speaking of himself PRIOR to his conversion or of himself AFTER his conversion; I think it is clear that he was speaking of himself PRIOR to his conversion. I think that for two reasons...
1) The apostle Paul was not a hypocrite. He taught...
Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
...by doing "EVIL" he was sowing to his flesh, not to the Spirit.
2) The apostle Paul continued and did not stop at the twenty-fifth verse.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
...here the apostle Paul says that there is no condemnation to them that are "IN" Christ, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Once again; 1John 3:6 tells us that anyone who abides "IN" Christ, DOES NOT sin. So comparing that to the apostle Paul in the seventh chapter of Romans doing "EVIL" was he "IN" Jesus? While Paul did the "EVIL" was he walking after the flesh or after the Spirit? Nope.
In the name of Christ,
Ken
This passage is a sore spot for many believers, even many believers who hold to the Integrity of Christ Guaranteeing Salvation Eternally For All Believers find this passage difficult. It appears to state that any one that practices fornication, idolatry and so on..."shall not inherit the kingdom of God". Hence, they either ignore this realizing that though they are ignorant of it proper understanding their doctrinal senses tell them this cannot be true because it is Christ that keeps a person saved or some that know it can't be still fret that they could be wrong. And of course there is another camp whose predilection for self-righteousness automatically attracts them to this verse they imagine is support for their assault on the Integrity of Christ vs human works to keep a man saved.Iamodd4God said:
For anyone from either dilemma allow me to help. Remember first what a believer is, he or she is just that, a believer. Their identity is IN CHRIST. Their righteousness is IN Christ. An unbeliever's identification is NOT in Christ and they are minus (R) righteousness. So their identity is just themselves which is unrighteousness.
So you are a believer and a nonbeliever is whatever they are, a fornicator, adulterer, homosexual and so on, they are identified by their sins. So when Paul states that adulterers will not inherit the kingdom, they won't. An adulterer is a synonym for a nonbeliever, using the sexual sin of adultery to identify them as such. A believer, while capable of committing such a sin, is not an adulterer is the context Paul uses as a warning. But he does warn because if one does practice adultery and they are professing to be a believer Paul warns them that adulterers don't inherit the kingdom...in other words, "Hey Pal, you say you are a believer but your life is mirroring that of an unbeliever who regularly practices adultery...you might want to make sure you indeed are a believer because what you are reflecting is the life and attitude of the unsaved".
Paul is not in anyway, shape or form trying to teach suddenly you go from saved to unsaved or that you are guaranteed to have never been saved. Paul is simply warning believers that it warrants a very serious consideration of their faith if their lives are reflecting that of nonbelievers.
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Bro. Williams
New Member
charles_creech78 said:
This is all true, but you are still attached to that old man until your pass from this life.
My inward man came into subjection, but the flesh is still the flesh.
Bro. Williams
New Member
charles_creech78 said:
Charles, I quoted what you said. I just now went back and read it, and yes, it is still what you said.
I am not trying to start a fight, I am telling you that you should never promote someone to sin. If you are using sarcasm, try to make that understood.
You might have a point if it weren't for the fact that Paul speaks in the present tense.Iamodd4God said:
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
There is nothing to indicate that Paul was speaking of past sins.