"New Age" or Spiritual

[JonC]

1 Corinthians 2:9–All that God has prepared for those who love Him. For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

The wording "combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words" has been considered by some as "new age thought" and sounding like a new age quote.

For the younger crowd, the New Age Movement (a type of Western esotericism drawing on 19th century ideas) was popular in the 1970's and pretty much died out by the early 1990's.

My question-concern is what role we give to the spiritual in our lives.

It often seems that Christianity has two extremes - one denies the spiritual while others other distrusts objective truth.

How comfortable are we today with spiritual realities?

What is the focus of the church?

Do we, as a whole, accept the idea that God gives us Spiritual truth - "spiritual words combined with spiritual thoughts"?

Or is that idea anti-intellectualism and only for the first century church, no longer true today?

 

[Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin]

It often seems that Christianity has two extremes - one denies the spiritual while others other distrusts objective truth.

That brings up two thoughts.

1. We had an EMS call one night in our county that came in as "patient stating his house is full of demons". I can't speak for my other brothers in my department, but I approached that call as very likely a case of mental problems, but I left the door open in my mind for it to actually be otherworldly, even though I figured that was unlikely. I don't think demons operate nowadays as they did in ancient times, although they're just as active in other ways.

I think that fits in your idea of two extremes. The spiritual denier would not even have the possibility that the call would be true and the objective truth denier would see demons everywhere.

2. Depending on what you mean by objective truth, it may need to be denied. If we think of what the source for all truth is, it's God. And we know God and His Truth through His Holy Word. Things that science claims are true, yet don't fit into God's Word can't be true as you can't have two opposing truths. A flashlight can't be on and off at the same time. It must be either/or. Evolution is a good example of that.

We can see cases where finches are similar and likely have specialized over the last couple thousand years, so we can believe that as objective truth because it fits in God's Word. But we can't believe the Darwinian idea of the changing of kinds as the Bible clearly states that God made all species, and the Earth isn't that old.

In other words, objective truth is downstream from the Bible. Everything claimed as truth must be filtered by God's Word. A scientist's idea of objective truth would not match God's idea of objective truth.

 

[JonC]

That brings up two thoughts.

1. We had an EMS call one night in our county that came in as "patient stating his house is full of demons". I can't speak for my other brothers in my department, but I approached that call as very likely a case of mental problems, but I left the door open in my mind for it to actually be otherworldly, even though I figured that was unlikely. I don't think demons operate nowadays as they did in ancient times, although they're just as active in other ways.

I think that fits in your idea of two extremes. The spiritual denier would not even have the possibility that the call would be true and the objective truth denier would see demons everywhere.

2. Depending on what you mean by objective truth, it may need to be denied. If we think of what the source for all truth is, it's God. And we know God and His Truth through His Holy Word. Things that science claims are true, yet don't fit into God's Word can't be true as you can't have two opposing truths. A flashlight can't be on and off at the same time. It must be either/or. Evolution is a good example of that.

We can see cases where finches are similar and likely have specialized over the last couple thousand years, so we can believe that as objective truth because it fits in God's Word. But we can't believe the Darwinian idea of the changing of kinds as the Bible clearly states that God made all species, and the Earth isn't that old.

In other words, objective truth is downstream from the Bible. Everything claimed as truth must be filtered by God's Word. A scientist's idea of objective truth would not match God's idea of objective truth.

I agree. The objective truth we cling to is God's Word.

I have noticed, over the past several decades, almost a denial of spiritual things (like demonic activity, miracles...anything supernatural today) in many circles.

 

[AustinC]

On another thread (Spiritual Truth and Doctrine )
@AustinC and @Iconoclast made the following complaint:



Obviously I was referencing 1 Corinthians 2:9–All that God has prepared for those who love Him. For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

For the younger crowd, the New Age Movement (a type of Western esotericism drawing on 19th century ideas) was popular in the 1970's and pretty much died out by the early 1990's.

My question-concern is what role we give to the spiritual in our lives.

To the two I mentioned Scripture speaking of "spiritual words combined with spiritual thoughts" seemed odd and unChristian ("New Age").

It often seems that Christianity has two extremes - one denies the spiritual while others other distrusts objective truth.

How comfortable are we today with spiritual realities?

What is the focus of the church?

Do we, as a whole, accept the idea that God gives us Spiritual truth - "spiritual words combined with spiritual thoughts"?

Or is that idea anti-intellectualism and only for the first century church, no longer true today?

First, there is very little in your threads that is obvious. In the other thread, I gave you opportunities to share scripture and you didn't.
So, in that light, thank you for sharing scripture.
Upon reading your use of the term "spiritual" I still don't see you using it in the same meaning that Paul does. You seem to use it as though it were mystical (which is what the new age does [and this group has not died out by any means]), but Paul is not speaking mystical spiritism at all.

1 Corinthians 2:11-16
No one can know a person’s thoughts except that person’s own spirit, and no one can know God’s thoughts except God’s own Spirit. And we have received God’s Spirit (not the world’s spirit), so we can know the wonderful things God has freely given us. When we tell you these things, we do not use words that come from human wisdom. Instead, we speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit’s words to explain spiritual truths. But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means. Those who are spiritual can evaluate all things, but they themselves cannot be evaluated by others. For, “Who can know the Lord’s thoughts? Who knows enough to teach him?” But we understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ.

 

[JonC]

First, there is very little in your threads that is obvious. In the other thread, I gave you opportunities to share scripture and you didn't.
So, in that light, thank you for sharing scripture.
Upon reading your use of the term "spiritual" I still don't see you using it in the same meaning that Paul does. You seem to use it as though it were mystical (which is what the new age does [and this group has not died out by any means]), but Paul is not speaking mystical spiritism at all.

1 Corinthians 2:11-16
No one can know a person’s thoughts except that person’s own spirit, and no one can know God’s thoughts except God’s own Spirit. And we have received God’s Spirit (not the world’s spirit), so we can know the wonderful things God has freely given us. When we tell you these things, we do not use words that come from human wisdom. Instead, we speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit’s words to explain spiritual truths. But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means. Those who are spiritual can evaluate all things, but they themselves cannot be evaluated by others. For, “Who can know the Lord’s thoughts? Who knows enough to teach him?” But we understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ.

I did. You thought the passage "read like a quote from a new age movement" so you rejected it as Scripture. I repeated the passage often in that thread.

Now that you know that was God's words and not a new age quote perhaps you would read the thread in a new light:

Spiritual Truth and Doctrine

This is the third time this year, that I know of, you rejected Scripture for a lack of knowing what was posted was in the Bible.

I often do not provide references because when I do nobody dates to say "that's stupid". But when people do not realize it is Scripture they show what they really believe. You believed several passages we're foolish before I pointed out they were Scripture.

 

[AustinC]

I did. You thought the passage "read like a quote from a new age movement" so you rejected it as Scripture. I repeated the passage often in that thread.

Now that you know that was God's words and not a new age quote perhaps you would read the thread in a new light:

Spiritual Truth and Doctrine

This is the third time this year, that I know of, you rejected Scripture for a lack of knowing what was posted was in the Bible.

I often do not provide references because when I do nobody dates to say "that's stupid". But when people do not realize it is Scripture they show what they really believe. You believed several passages we're foolish before I pointed out they were Scripture.

Jon, you didn't. And now you have created a thread to double down.
Jon, you can play your games with others. I have said what I needed to say. I won't get into your game playing.

 

[Aaron]

On another thread (Spiritual Truth and Doctrine )
@AustinC and @Iconoclast made the following complaint:



Obviously I was referencing 1 Corinthians 2:9–All that God has prepared for those who love Him. For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

For the younger crowd, the New Age Movement (a type of Western esotericism drawing on 19th century ideas) was popular in the 1970's and pretty much died out by the early 1990's.

My question-concern is what role we give to the spiritual in our lives.

To the two I mentioned Scripture speaking of "spiritual words combined with spiritual thoughts" seemed odd and unChristian ("New Age").

It often seems that Christianity has two extremes - one denies the spiritual while others other distrusts objective truth.

How comfortable are we today with spiritual realities?

What is the focus of the church?

Do we, as a whole, accept the idea that God gives us Spiritual truth - "spiritual words combined with spiritual thoughts"?

Or is that idea anti-intellectualism and only for the first century church, no longer true today?

LOL. This resembles little if anything to the post of which you refer.

No, your first post was saying that there was a higher and more authoritative truth than biblical truth. That one can have 'poor theology' yet be in possession of this higher truth, that is manifest in civility and morality.

 

[JonC]

Jon, you didn't. And now you have created a thread to double down.
Jon, you can play your games with others. I have said what I needed to say. I won't get into your game playing.

No, this is a legitimate thread. You are right that you are attempting to hijack it.

I don't want you to play games. You made an error.

For some strange reason you have interpreted the passage (when I used it) to be mystical spiritism.

This is what the thread is about. Scripture speaks of the work of the Spirit, of Spiritual truth, bring conveyed in spiritual words combined with spiritual thoughts. To you that is mystical spiritism.

And it is to much of the church today.

I said spiritual truth is spiritual words combined with spiritual thoughts. Why automatically jump to the idea this is mystical spiritism???

Nobody has even mentioned mystical spiritism except you. I certainly have not. But you assumed "spiritual words combined with spiritual thoughts" is new age mystical spiritism because of the words used.

 

[JonC]

The point of this thread is simple.

Today we see churches having a form of godliness but denying any power of God, any actual activity of God in their lives and in the world.

We look at the role of the Spirit to be accepting what is written, or accepting our theology, but often deny any activity of the Spirit as emotional or mystic spirituality.

Does God really not work in the life of the Church today?

 

[AustinC]

Anyone care to exegete the passage? I receive my understanding from what scripture actually says.

1 Corinthians 2:6-16

Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But, as it is written, “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”— these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

Who is the "we" and "us" in this passage?

How is the mind of Christ imparted?

Let the text speak for itself.

 

[JonC]

Anyone care to exegete the passage? I receive my understanding from what scripture actually says.

1 Corinthians 2:6-16

Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But, as it is written, “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”— these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

Who is the "we" and "us" in this passage?

How is the mind of Christ imparted?

Let the text speak for itself.

It is those who have "received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God".

It is also the "we" here:

For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Romans 8:26-27
In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

1 Corinthians 12:7-11
But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,read more.

 

[AustinC]

It is those who have "received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God".

It is also the "we" here:

For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Romans 8:26-27
In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

1 Corinthians 12:7-11
But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,read more.

Exegete 1 Corinthians 2:6-16.

 

[JesusFan]

I agree. The objective truth we cling to is God's Word.

I have noticed, over the past several decades, almost a denial of spiritual things (like demonic activity, miracles...anything supernatural today) in many circles.

Not as denial of such, but a rejection of Word of faith, modern day Apostles and Prophets, and other aberrant teachings concerning supernatural in the church!

 

[JesusFan]

First, there is very little in your threads that is obvious. In the other thread, I gave you opportunities to share scripture and you didn't.
So, in that light, thank you for sharing scripture.
Upon reading your use of the term "spiritual" I still don't see you using it in the same meaning that Paul does. You seem to use it as though it were mystical (which is what the new age does [and this group has not died out by any means]), but Paul is not speaking mystical spiritism at all.

1 Corinthians 2:11-16
No one can know a person’s thoughts except that person’s own spirit, and no one can know God’s thoughts except God’s own Spirit. And we have received God’s Spirit (not the world’s spirit), so we can know the wonderful things God has freely given us. When we tell you these things, we do not use words that come from human wisdom. Instead, we speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit’s words to explain spiritual truths. But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means. Those who are spiritual can evaluate all things, but they themselves cannot be evaluated by others. For, “Who can know the Lord’s thoughts? Who knows enough to teach him?” But we understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ.

new Age alive and well in many charismatic churches today

 

[JesusFan]

LOL. This resembles little if anything to the post of which you refer.

No, your first post was saying that there was a higher and more authoritative truth than biblical truth. That one can have 'poor theology' yet be in possession of this higher truth, that is manifest in civility and morality.

Basically it seems to be any theology and doctrines that Jon C agrees with!

 

[JonC]

Basically it seems to be any theology and doctrines that Jon C agrees with!

Well, you guys think Pauline theology is "new age thought", that it sounds like a quote from the new age movement.

Do I am not sure your opinion matters.

BUT you also believe your theology is correct. Everybody believes their belief is correct.....that's why they believe it.

 

[JesusFan]

Well, you guys think Pauline theology is "new age thought", that it sounds like a quote from the new age movement.

Do I am not sure your opinion matters.

BUT you also believe your theology is correct. Everybody believes their belief is correct.....that's why they believe it.

No, we all agree with Pauline Justification of the NT, do you?

 

[JonC]

new Age alive and well in many charismatic churches today

That isn't new age. But it is a type of spiritualism (mysticism?).

 

[JesusFan]

That isn't new age. But it is a type of spiritualism (mysticism?).

It is new age, as they basically teach that we are like gods!

 

[Iconoclast]

Exegete 1 Corinthians 2:6-16.

If you examine the links, he does not understand Adam, pre fall or post fall.

Just read what he believes. Adam had no spirit, just flesh.

JonC actually posted this.

I am trying to post, JonC is now saying I said this...when it is a direct quote from JonC.lol
When I go to answer. it does not allow me to, it says I have insufficient privledges to post here.??
lol

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1. ↑Icon had posted JonC saying thiAdam had no spirit, just flesh.
   Adam had no spirit? Just flesh?
   
   Your belief is far from Scripture.
   
   Adam was created in the image of God. Body, soul and spirit (some would argue body and soul, but that's an argument for another day).
   
   Bottom line is you downgrade God by your theory that Adam was just a lump of flesh because man is created in God's image.
   
   I have repeatedly argued that Adam was created with a human spirit and a human body. (Life in the Spirit is talking about God's Spirit, not natural man's spirit which sets it's mind on the flesh).
   
   But to show just how far you have drifted you now claim that God created Adam without a spirit.
   
   You misunderstand 1 Corinthians 15. The flesh coming first and then the Spirit was not saying Adam had no spirit.
   
   #21JonC, Today at 5:47 PM
   Report
   
   
2. 
   

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