New and improved poll on 10 Commandments

[Alcott]

Here is a new poll on the significance of the “Ten Commandments” for Christians of the New Covenant with what some may consider an improved array of options. To aid in editing the poll, the capital C means Commandment.

 

[bound]

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. ~ Romans 13:8-10

Christ gave us the 'inside track' to understanding the objective to the Law of the Jews.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

I believe the Ten Commandments were given for all time.

They are moral laws and things we should not/or should, as Christians, want to do anyway.

Of course, no one can keep all of them all the time and God knew that.

That's why He gave us John 1:9.... :thumbs:

 

[BobRyan]

In the New Covenant God through the Holy Spirit writes that law on the "tablets of the human heart".

So Paul states in Romans 3:31 "Do we then nullify the Law of God? God forbid!! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God"

 

[Palatka51]

Matthew 22:34-40

34But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. 35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

[BobRyan]

In Matt 22 Christ points out that Lev 19:18 "Love your Neighbor" and Deut 6:5 "Love God" were the commandments that formed the foundation for all others -- and the pre-cross Pharisees readily agreed to this point.

Yes -- this was fact pre-cross just as it is today.

 

[Alcott]

In the New Covenant God through the Holy Spirit writes that law on the "tablets of the human heart".

Ain't that nice?

So Paul states in Romans 3:31 "Do we then nullify the Law of God? God forbid!! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God"

The same Paul who said "He who shall be circumcised must then obey the full law, or Christ shall be of no benefit"?

 

[Alcott]

In Matt 22 Christ points out that Lev 19:18 "Love your Neighbor" and Deut 6:5 "Love God" were the commandments that formed the foundation for all others -- and the pre-cross Pharisees readily agreed to this point.

Yeehaw for the Pharisees!

Yes -- this was fact pre-cross just as it is today.

And yeehaw for us!

 

[Palatka51]

Ain't that nice?



The same Paul who said "He who shall be circumcised must then obey the full law, or Christ shall be of no benefit"?

Paul equated the circumcision of the heart as trumping the circumcision of the flesh.

 

[Alcott]

Paul equated the circumcision of the heart as trumping the circumcision of the flesh.

And to think they didn't even have cardiovascular surgery then! Or, if they did, the success rate wan't likely too high.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Of course, no one can keep all of them all the time and God knew that.

That's why He gave us John 1:9.... :thumbs:

Mother, if I may; I would like to add an "I" to your post.
"That's why He gave us I John 1:9..." :wavey:

Have a Happy Thanksgiving. Wish we could be there.

 

[BobRyan]

Do I detect a family connection between Pastor Bob and Blessed-17??

 

[bound]

Grace and Peace,

As much as I am nourished by reflection on the Law I am not convinced that we as Christians born again in the newness of life in our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ are 'under' the Law but under Promise.

I dare say that no one who reads Galatians can reach any other conclusion...

the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

The Laws of Moses came 'after' the promise to Abraham and thus is not 'part of the promise'. It may be useful and informing but it is not something with disannuls our participation in Salvation through Faith. The Law was a schoolmaster to confirm 'all as transgressors'...

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

I can appreciate the Law as a preparatory discipline but the intent of the law is condemnation not justification.

Now I understand that this liberty, in which all true Christians find themselves, cannot be a means to serve the lusts of the flesh but that doesn't mean that we 'under the Law of the Jews' which didn't actually come till 'after' salvation through Faith.

I believe we have to understand that we cannot abide in Legalism anymore than we can abide Antinomianism. The two are 'extremes' which are simply not permitted as a reasonable expression of the Liberty in which we find ourselves 'in Christ'.

Love, true love, fulfills the Law of God. Perhaps it doesn't fulfill every instance of the Law of the Jews but I don't believe Jesus taught that either. He fulfills the Law by revealing what the Law was meant to teach... charity.

 

[Tom Butler]

What does one do with Colossians 2:16 "Let no man judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holyday, or of the new moon, or the sabbath days."

The next verse, 17, says "....which are a shadow of things to come.."

 

[Alcott]

If one has one's mind made up otherwise, one simply denies a verse of scripture.

 

[BobRyan]

What does one do with Colossians 2:16 "Let no man judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holyday, or of the new moon, or the sabbath days."

The next verse, 17, says "....which are a shadow of things to come.."

If one's mind is made up no matter what scripture says - then they might be tempted to ignore what Jamieson Fausset and Brown say in their commentary about Col 2:16

Col 2 (JFB)
16. therefore--because ye are complete in Christ, and God in Him has dispensed with all subordinate means as essential to acceptance with Him.
meat . . . drink--Greek, "eating . . . drinking" (Ro 14:1-17). Pay no regard to any one who sits in judgment on you as to legal observances in respect to foods.
holyday--a feast yearly. Compare the three, 1Ch 23:31.
new moon--monthly.
the sabbath--Omit "THE," which is not in the Greek (compare Note, see on Ga 4:10). "SABBATHS" (not "the sabbaths") of the day of atonement and feast of tabernacles have come to an end with the Jewish services to which they belonged (Le 23:32, 37-39). The weekly sabbath rests on a more permanent foundation, having been instituted in Paradise to commemorate the completion of creation in six days. Le 23:38 expressly distinguished "the sabbath of the Lord" from the other sabbaths. A positive precept is right because it is commanded, and ceases to be obligatory when abrogated; a moral precept is commanded eternally, because it is eternally right. If we could keep a perpetual sabbath, as we shall hereafter, the positive precept of the sabbath, one in each week, would not be needed. Heb 4:9, "rests," Greek, "keeping of sabbath" (Isa 66:23). But we cannot, since even Adam, in innocence, needed one amidst his earthly employments; therefore the sabbath is still needed and is therefore still linked with the other nine commandments, as obligatory in the spirit, though the letter of the law has been superseded by that higher spirit of love which is the essence of law and Gospel alike (Ro 13:8-10).
17. things to come--the blessings of the Christian covenant, the substance of which Jewish ordinances were but the type. Compare "ages to come," that is, the Gospel dispensation (Eph 2:7). Heb 2:5, "the world to come."
the body is of Christ--The real substance (of the blessings typified by the law) belongs to Christ (Heb 8:5; 10:1).
http://www.studylight.org/com/jfb/view.cgi?book=col&chapter=002

As I already pointed out regarding Matt 7 "pre-cross" the statement "Do not judge that you be not judged" had to do with judging others prec-cross. It was not right before the cross - and as Paul points out in Col 2 -- it is not right after the cross.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

The Laws of Moses came 'after' the promise to Abraham and thus is not 'part of the promise'. It may be useful and informing but it is not something with disannuls our participation in Salvation through Faith.

1. God approves Abraham for keeping His Law -

Gen 26:5 because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws.''


2. The law "written on the heart" is central to the New Covenant according to Heb 8.

Hard to miss.

But the condemnation of the law serves the lost in pointing them to their need of Christ.

The Law was a schoolmaster to confirm 'all as transgressors'...

And so it is valid even to this day -- for even to this day sinners are in need of salvation.

I can appreciate the Law as a preparatory discipline but the intent of the law is condemnation not justification.

That is true before salvation --

but Paul speaks of a justification in Romans 2 that is AFTER salvation and that is connected to the LAW.

"For it is not the HEARERS of the law that are just but the DOERS of the Law WILL BE JUSTIFIED". Rom 2:11-13

This is a future justification according to Paul in Romans 2 and the law DOES play a part in that -

James brings up the same point "so live and act as those who ARE to be judged by the Law of Liberty".

Hence Paul's statement "Do we then make VOID the Law of God by our faith? God forbid!! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law" Rom 3:31.

Love, true love, fulfills the Law of God.

Fulfills the law of God as in abolishes the Law of God.

Under the Law of God as in -- held accountable?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[bound]

Grace and Peace,

Again I can appreciate your zeal for legality but the Believer is complete in Christ and blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross...

It the resurrection we, as Christians, find the fulfillment of God's Providence and the renewal of Creation in the free offering of His Grace. For the Christian it is a time of praise and thanksgiving to our God who has fulfilled His promise.

Again as much as I can appreciate the preparatory discipline of the Law it is fulfilled in Christ and it's ordinances to condemnation has been nailed to the cross in completion.

We therefore walk in Faith of the promise given by God and won by Jesus Christ for us and in abeyance to the Law which finds us Transgressors due to His Victory over its penalty.

Again I would say that we cannot look at our Liberty in Christ as a means to sin but neither are we, who walk in Faith again under a schoolmaster (see Gal 3:26).

 

[Alcott]

If one's mind is made up no matter what scripture says - then they might be tempted to ignore what Jamieson Fausset and Brown say in their commentary about Col 2:16....

Good; certain 'ones' go by scripture and not commentary. I don't know how many read this junk you paste, but I assure you I ain't one of them.

 

[bound]

That is true before salvation --

but Paul speaks of a justification in Romans 2 that is AFTER salvation and that is connected to the LAW.

"For it is not the HEARERS of the law that are just but the DOERS of the Law WILL BE JUSTIFIED". Rom 2:11-13

This is a future justification according to Paul in Romans 2 and the law DOES play a part in that -

James brings up the same point "so live and act as those who ARE to be judged by the Law of Liberty".

Hence Paul's statement "Do we then make VOID the Law of God by our faith? God forbid!! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law" Rom 3:31.

The Apostle Paul was not speaking about a 'second' justification, as far as I can see. He was making the point that Jews were not justified just because they possessed the Law, as they assumed, but only if they kept the Law, which they failed to do.

Remember, we are not justified by the Law as the intent of the Law was to reveal man's Transgressions and need of God's Mercy. This is true before Justification as well as after. The Apostle Paul was very clear on this and I have very little fear of preaching it with great confidence.

We can pick this up later after Thanksgiving as I will be traveling but as always I greatly enjoy discussing these topic with you and everyone else on the Forum. I by no means dismiss your arguments and will, as always, give them much consideration and thought.

Thanks and God Bless.