New Book on Rick Warren Coming Out

Tell you what,..... those folks would be much more believable if they'd give the book away for free..regardelss how much truth they produce, they just jumping on the $$$ bandwagon. My .02 worth.

tim

 

Oh.. and Marcia.. thanks for the post..if you hadnt posted it, there's now way i would have found out. Our church knows little or nothing about PDL and never talks about it.
thanks
tim

 

I am, for one, looking forward to reading this book. The more I am in contact with PDL, the more questions I have. Perhaps, some of them will be answered by the book.

 

My problem with PDL is how wacked out his Scripture references are. He makes good points but he bases many of them on texts that don't teach what he says they do. Very poor use of Scripture (taken out of context, poor translations/paraphrases). I would give his book an F if it were a paper handed in at the seminary level.

 

Well I sure he is glad you weren't his professor at Southwestern or Fuller?!!

 

That's an extremely poor analogy.

Do you preach to a congregation like you would preach to seminary students? Just imagine who the majority of readers are? The same people that listen to your sermons on Sunday.

I would challenge you to ask the average person in the church you pastor what the gospel is. You will be amazed at the answers you get. Then ask them about salvation and I doubt over five would talk about the temporal aspect of salvation.

The simple truth is that in the best evangelical churches only ten percent of the people can give reasons for their faith. Only ten percent share their faith on a regular basis. Only ten percent lead anyone to Christ in their lifetime. Only 11 percent of the pastors share their faith on a regular basis. The majority never lead one person to Christ in an entire lifetime. Don't believe me just look at your membership role.

Based on the results, what does that say about your preaching? Or would you prefer to do as God commands?

 

I feel the same way.

 

go2 and gb,

What do your comments have to do with my assessment of his book? Your responses seem to prove my point. Warren's comments and points are good. But his scriptural references don't back up his points. What's so hard about that that you can't figure it out?

His poor handling of Scripture discredits Scriptural authority. You can take any verse and make it say whatever you want. That is the lesson of PDL - look through how ever many translations or paraphrases you need to until you find one that says what you want the Bible to say. I was shocked at how many references didn't match up to what he claimed they said.

Take his book, write down the Scriptural references, open your Bible and read his book. Then, you too will discover how badly he has handled the Word of God, the very book we claim is authoritative for our lives. For that, he earns an F.

The strangest thing about Warren's book is that there are biblical references that he could have used that would have proven his points. Really odd.

 

I would like an example of this if you or anyone else will give one.

This is not a challenge, I don't have a hidden agenda but a genuine desire to know more about this "PDL" and its promoters.

Thanks.

HankD

 

I preached through Warren's book, one chapter a week. In every chapter I would teach his ideas and concepts but have to use different Scriptural references than he used to undergird his points biblically. You can do this for yourself if you have any knowledge of the Bible. Read a chapter, discover the inappropriate texts used, and then think about what you know of the Bible and which biblical verses actually teach what Warren was saying.

 

My comment was simply that I am sure Warren is glad he didn't have you as a seminary prof if you would have given him a F. No hidden agenda or secret meaning. I thought this board was full of literalists?

 

I, for one, believe the Scriptures LITERALLY. Where symbolism is used, it's quite apparent it IS symbolism, and most of it is explained.

Scripture, history, & science DO go together. I don't need any commentaries other than a good encyclopedia or world history book to go with Scripture. Since I haven't read PDL nor intend to, that's all I can say.

 

Strange that you would compare his book to a seminary paper. The book was not written to or for seminary students but to many non-believers and immature believers.

I would challenge you to take a look at the sermons Jesus preached and then stack the simplicity of His sermons against what He did. Jesus would be judged as being too simplistic by many today if pastors really preached the same sermons He preached.

Personally I don't read any church growth books. I consider all of them blasphemous. Too many times they present the idea that if a pastor does everything right the church will grow. Scripture certainly does not indicate that. How about the scripture that mentions shaking the dust off your feet. Many a pastor has gotten discouraged by church members and the books he has read because they give out the secret formula for "growth." Sometimes the congregation must get right before God before He moves and maybe the people in the area have hardened their hearts.

I do not at all agree with a number of things Warren writes. (But then I do not always agree with everything I wrote even five years ago.) I will say this: When I heard him present his materials in person I came away with a very different interpretation on many things he said than what I thought I read before I came to the conference. When I met Warren at the conference and talked with him I could easily see why God is using him. It is very little of what he says but who he is. He is a very warm and caring individual who loves evangelism. When I spoke with him there were many others around and yet he made me feel as though I was the only person around. I learned a lot just the short time I had with him.

I think much has been said about him and what he writes that has been interpreetd in light of their own experience and what they perceive rather than what Warren believes. Certainly I was giulty of that.

Warren also says in the conference that none of what he speaks about in the conference may work at your own church.

I will say that if the churches were earnestly praying before God there would not be a church growth book written. Every church I pastored was weak in prayer. I remember one of the churches I pastored and the first deacons meeting we had. They told me they were knowledgeable about the Bible and prayed. So I just assumed they could easily pray together for one hour. They were dry after 15 minutes, after their words were exhausted. They didn't know God. They only knew a little about Him.

I wonder how many would be willing to start a church by faith with just enough to rent a truck but not enough to rent a place in one of the most expensive places to live in America with a pregnant wife? That's what Warren did. He trusted God for all his needs. Starting a church can be very hard and discouraging at times. It takes a person whom God calls with a drive that cannot be shaken.

 

Dear Paul33,
You are using loaded language. If I have "any" knowledge of the Bible, I will come to your conclusions. But I don't understand why, if you think it was such a poor book, that you preached through it chapter by chapter. And you actually don't seem to disagree with his conclusions, you think he should have picked different verses to support those conclusions.
My church went through the PDL in small groups. I attended every session of my group. I would consider it helpful if you would give an example.
My pastor seems to like PDL a lot more than you do, yet he certainly did not preach through the book chapter by chapter.
Sunday mornings we have been going through John, Sunday nights Revelation, Wednesday nights we just finished Galatians, and have started Jonah.

Don't worry so much about Rick Warren, and just preach through the Bible.

Karen

 

"New Book on Rick Warren Coming Out"

Rick Warren is "coming out?" What from?

 

Karen,

Because I was asked to.
"If you have any knowledge of the Bible" wasn't meant as a perjorative. I simply meant, anyone who has read the Bible can think about what Warren has said and could readily find texts that support his conclusions.

Karen, do this for yourself. You can find the examples on your own.

I preach through the Bible. Revelation, Matthew, Luke, Ephesians, etc.

 

gb,

Again, nothing you have posted has anything to do with my "complaint" of his book.

My point is that when we quote the Bible or make reference to it, it ought to support the "teaching" or "principle" that we are making. Warren's book failed miserably at this very point.

What he called a strength, using numerous translations, was actually a weakness, because the paraphrases he used didn't speak to the points he was making.

The audience is irrelevant. Since when do I have the right to misapply Scripture because my audience is "unbelievers." Because my audience is unbelievers, I need to be "even" more careful with the text, if that is possible!

The lesson of Warren's book exegetically, is that I can use any text to support my teaching, as long as I can find it in one of 37 different translations or paraphrases, regardless of the fact that the one translation/paraphrase that I am using to prove my point is incorrect and not supported by the rest of the available translations, not to mention Hebrew or Greek.

 

gb,
Your post addresses many of the areas that I also have concerns over. Until a church (or individual) makes prayer their priority, no significant growth will occur, no matter how many self-help guru books we can digest.
WallyGator