New covenant scriptures

[Dr. Walter]

It is a foolish and false kind of logic that reasons if salvation is the same for Israel and its house of God (the temple) as well as for the Gentile and its house of God (the church) then texts that apply the same salvation to both must mean that Israel and Gentiles are one and the same and the temple and the church are one and the same. None of this is true.

Israel is ethnic national Israel and the Gentiles are non-Israelites. The "church" corresponds to the "temple" and neither is salvation but rather are institutions identified as "the house of God" (1 Tim. 3:15) for the saved to serve in and through and for the ordained ministry to officiate within (1 Tim. 3:1-13).

The New Covenant is for Gentiles !

Who can read Jer 31:31-34

31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Now who can read this and not see that these promises were not fulfilled through the Ministry of the Apostles and Particularly the Apostle to the Gentiles, Paul ? Paul wrote in 2 Cor 3:1-6


1Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?

2Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:

5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

The Main Characteristic of the New Covenant was to give Spiritual Life, and that is promised in Jer 31:33

Christ Blood is that which confirmed the New Covenant Matt 28:26

28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The same blood that purchased the Church Acts 20:28


28Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.


So the House of Israel and house of Judah of Jere 31:31-33 is none other than the Church , which is comprised of both Jews and Gentiles in Christ !

 

[Dr. Walter]

Well if that were true maybe you can explain what these "new covenant" scriptures say if they are not saying what they are actually saying. This is the actual question of this thread which no one has yet answered. Some have pointed to scriptures which are speaking of circumcision but thats the best they could do.

So what do these scriptures say if they dont say what they

You have had these scriptures explained to you over and over again and every time incapable of responding except by jumping to another text. However, I will one more time attempt to show you what these texts mean according to the immediate and overall context.

DO YOU WANT ETERNAL LIFE
MATT.19 [16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.[18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

This text and the one where the Rich young ruler came to Christ are about the same thing in regard to the same kind of person who is seeking eternal life based upon their OWN WORKS rather than any kind of faith in Christ or the works of Christ in their behalf.

You will note two obvious things about this passage and the one concerning the rich young ruler - there is no gospel preached or offered by Christ as Christ presented the gospel to Nicodemus in John 3:15-19. Christ NEVER invites them to believe in him or come to him as in John 3;15-19.

Secondly, both persons addressed are SELF-RIGHTEOUS persons in their OWN EYES. Both believe they are capable of DOING something themselves to obtain eternal life. DOING not believing in someone else.

Jesus never came to call the righteous because no such person really exists outside the imagination of a sinner (Rom. 3:9-10). Remember, Jesus told the rich young ruler explicitly "THERE IS NONE GOOD BUT ONE and THAT IS GOD."

However, a person who is looking to be saved by DOING something to make God indebted to them because of their works to bestow eternal life is for them to keep the law WITHOUT ONE FAILURE or else they come "SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD" (Rom. 3:23). The "glory" of God is his moral righteousness or what is called His "holiness" wherein NO SIN can be found. This is precisely how James defines keeping the law (James 2:10-11) so that not ONE POINT is violated.

This is the message for RIGHTEOUS DO-GOODERS like yourself and this is how keeping the law is defined for such. Do this and you will obtain eternal life. Jesus did this and Jesus merited the approval of the law but CAN YOU???? If you can, then eternal life is yours. However, the scriptures repeatedly state that NONE can (Rom. 3:9-11; 23). However, the message Jesus gave to the Lawyer and to the Rich young ruler is the only message you can give to one who believes they can keep the law in order to obtain eternal life - go for it!

Howeve, the law is not of faith (Gal. 3:12) and only faith in the obedience of Christ to the law FOR YOU both in regard to satisfying its righteous demands for life and penalty for sin can obtain eternal life for sinners. However, since you don't recognize yourself as a sinner but as one capable of keeping the law according to its holy demands - sinlessness - then go for it!


Ac 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

However, you think "could not be" means "can be" so go for it!

 

[savedbymercy]

dw

Israel is ethnic national Israel

That Israel is not the Children of God Rom 9:8

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I've been browsing through this thread for the first time and really enjoying it.
Perhaps this will help. It's Chapter XIX of the 1689 Baptist Confession. It may serve to answer Chowmah's questions.
Enjoy! :thumbsup:

1._____ God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience written in his heart, and a particular precept of not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil; by which he bound him and all his posterity to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience; promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.
( Genesis 1:27; Ecclesiastes 7:29; Romans 10:5; Galatians 3:10, 12 )

2._____ The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables, the four first containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.
( Romans 2:14, 15; Deuteronomy 10:4 )

3._____ Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits; and partly holding forth divers instructions of moral duties, all which ceremonial laws being appointed only to the time of reformation, are, by Jesus Christ the true Messiah and only law-giver, who was furnished with power from the Father for that end abrogated and taken away.
( Hebrews 10:1; Colossians 2:17; 1 Corinthians 5:7; Colossians 2:14, 16, 17; Ephesians 2:14, 16 )

4._____ To them also he gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the state of that people, not obliging any now by virtue of that institution; their general equity only being of moral use.
( 1 Corinthians 9:8-10 )

5._____ The moral law doth for ever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof, and that not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it; neither doth Christ in the Gospel any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.
( Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8, 10-12; James 2:10, 11; Matthew 5:17-19; Romans 3:31 )

6._____ Although true believers be not under the law as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified or condemned, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, in that as a rule of life, informing them of the will of God and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts, and lives, so as examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against, sin; together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ and the perfection of his obedience; it is likewise of use to the regenerate to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin; and the threatenings of it serve to shew what even their sins deserve, and what afflictions in this life they may expect for them, although freed from the curse and unallayed rigour thereof. The promises of it likewise shew them God's approbation of obedience, and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof, though not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works; so as man's doing good and refraining from evil, because the law encourageth to the one and deterreth from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law and not under grace.
( Romans 6:14; Galatians 2:16; Romans 8:1; Romans 10:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7, etc; Romans 6:12-14; 1 Peter 3:8-13 )

7._____ Neither are the aforementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it, the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely and cheerfully which the will of God, revealed in the law, requireth to be done.
( Galatians 3:21; Ezekiel 36:27 )

Steve

 

[Dr. Walter]

dw



That Israel is not the Children of God Rom 9:8

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Your right concerning Israel right now! But that Israel SHALL BE the children of God as God is not only "able to graft them in again" but shall "when the fullness of the Gentiles be COME IN and so "all Israel shall be saved" - the same Israel that had been formerly "cut off" the same Israel that is presently now the "enemies of the gospel for YOUR sakes"! In that day, ETHNIC NATIONAL ISRAEL will all be SPIRIT BORN ETHNIC NATIONAL ISRAEL.

 

[savedbymercy]

Your right concerning Israel right now!

Thats always been the case. The Israel according to Abraham's flesh only, is liken to Ishmael, who can never be a Child of promise and Heir.

Gal 4:30

Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

The shall not cuts off future hope of that changing..

Israel after the Flesh can never become what Israel after the Spirit has become and will inherit. You actually teach against this Truth !


The Israel after the flesh, are not the Children of God Rom 9:8

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Only Children are Heirs.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Thats always been the case. The Israel according to Abraham's flesh only, is liken to Ishmael, who can never be a Child of promise and Heir.

Gal 4:30

Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

The shall not cuts off future hope of that changing..

Israel after the Flesh can never become what Israel after the Spirit has become and will inherit. You actually teach against this Truth !


The Israel after the flesh, are not the Children of God Rom 9:8

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Only Children are Heirs.

First of all you are taking Paul's words out of context in Galatians. He is not dealing with the salvation or damnation of any nation much less Israel as a nation. He is dealing with the doctrine of justification by works versus justification by grace. It is the oppoents of Paul and their doctrine of justification by works or the OLD COVENANT that Paul is likening to Hagar and Ishmael. So again, you just jerk texts out of context just use as proof texts for a pretext.

Second, in the context where Paul is dealing with Israel as a nation he explicitly states they have been "cut off" but will be graft in "AGAIN" (Rom. 11:23. When they are graft in "again" they will be a nation of believers as "all Israel" shall be saved when Chrsit comes from heaven.

I have documented this proof in another thread in posts #36 and #38 which you have not dared to respond to at all in any kind of comprehensive manner. Why? Because you can't and because your doctrine is based wholly and totally upon proof texting out of context.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

MATT.19 [16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

What would prompt this question? The topic should not occur to a first century Jew. "Eternal live" is a phrase invented by Christianity.

Note the answer:

17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

 

[Thinkingstuff]

>Simply what they say. I believe "keep my commandments" means what it says. Keep my commandments. That of course includes the 10.

But not the rest of the 613 which could be applied to you? (some are limited to one gender)

Do you think Jesus meant the whole Mitzvot or just the 10?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

If we are only obligated by the words of the Ten Commandments then by default homosexual activity is OK.

Doesn't that fall under adultary? Or basically sex outside of marriage?

 

[Dr. Walter]

Doesn't that fall under adultary? Or basically sex outside of marriage?

Consider that the Ten commandments are divided into two basic commandments to love God (first five) and to love your neighbor as yourself (second five) and then summarized by one word "love."

Hence, why not the reverse? Why could not all the other commandments (principles and precepts) be summarized by the ten?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Consider that the Ten commandments are divided into two basic commandments to love God (first five) and to love your neighbor as yourself (second five) and then summarized by one word "love."

Hence, why not the reverse? Why could not all the other commandments (principles and precepts) be summarized by the ten?

Actually I believe the Mitzvot are but thats from my Jewish training. The Jewish understanding of the 10 commandments or the Aseret ha-Dibrot is that each one is a catagory to itself. Each of the 613 Mitzvot are classed under these.