This was just posted today.
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New from Alberta
- Thread starter Squire Robertsson
- Start date
Who'da thunk 2 years ago that North America would fall into a totalitarian state where if a Pastor dared to have service on the Lord's Day they would be fined, harassed, arrested and charged?
I remember Artur's original arrest earlier this year on the highway where they had 7 different police cars for such a dangerous man.
That North American country is Canada. You will have to start studying them to understand. I seriously doubt that this would happen in the US of A. Lawyer up and beat these (snip) Pastor.
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I don't just mean Canada, I mean here in the old U.S.A as well, hence "North America". John MacArthur's Church was fined for having service, tens of thousands of dollars. The city tried to take away their parking lot privileges too. The health department was threatening to arrest them.
Police in Chicago are raiding multiple Churches for daring to meet.
Not only will it happen in the U.S.A, it already has happened, and is happening unfortunately.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Don't feel to sorry for him as he just keeps breaking the law and thinks that's ok. We have a major problem here in Alberta with covid and it is people like him that are a major contributor to said problem. He is trying to play the martyr but here we just see him as a fool.
His style of Christianity is shameful all he does is make it possible for those that oppose faith to point to what he exhibits as Christian love for their fellow man and then dismiss all Christians.
His style of Christianity is shameful all he does is make it possible for those that oppose faith to point to what he exhibits as Christian love for their fellow man and then dismiss all Christians.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
When you support the flaunting of health laws you are just as bad as those that do it. I would have to guess that you think the covid problem is just a hoax.
My Church flaunted the health laws in our state, as did almost all Churches here in Appalachia, the stoic spine of the Bible Belt, for the entire duration of the pandemic.
All 150+ members met in the building without masks on, even though our governor told us that we're not allowed to meet with people who aren't biological family. I'll let you in on another doosie, when our governor imposed a 10pm curfew, all of us, including the Sheriff totally ignored it and purposefully drove around after 10pm.
Do you want to lock me up like they locked up Artur Pawlowski? Are you going to lock up my Pastor too?
Sliverhair, the problem as I understand it is the province initially sought to enforce a legally irrelevant court order. The order was for the Whistlestop Cafe and was narrowly written. I do not know the circumstances for this arrest. All we know is the pastor just flew in from the States.
Rebel News (the source) in the OP has a somewhat chequered past. For example:
Following the Quebec City mosque shooting on 29 January 2017, Rebel promoted a conspiracy theory that the shooting was perpetrated by Muslims.[37] In 2017, Rebel Media hired far-right activist Tommy Robinson, founder of the avowedly anti-Islamic English Defence League, as its British correspondent. Robinson was convicted of mortgage fraud and using a friend's passport to enter the US.[38][39][40][41]
In March 2017, one of their correspondents, Gavin McInnes, made controversial comments defending Holocaust deniers, accused the Jews of being responsible for the Holodomor and the Treaty of Versailles, and said he was "becoming anti-Semitic".
Now to be fair, the story needs to be evaluated on its terms. But the credibility of the source is a legitimate consideration.
And it is beyond clear that those who are of the anti-vax stance have repeatedly appealed to a rather dubious melange of highly disreputable sources.
Following the Quebec City mosque shooting on 29 January 2017, Rebel promoted a conspiracy theory that the shooting was perpetrated by Muslims.[37] In 2017, Rebel Media hired far-right activist Tommy Robinson, founder of the avowedly anti-Islamic English Defence League, as its British correspondent. Robinson was convicted of mortgage fraud and using a friend's passport to enter the US.[38][39][40][41]
In March 2017, one of their correspondents, Gavin McInnes, made controversial comments defending Holocaust deniers, accused the Jews of being responsible for the Holodomor and the Treaty of Versailles, and said he was "becoming anti-Semitic".
Now to be fair, the story needs to be evaluated on its terms. But the credibility of the source is a legitimate consideration.
And it is beyond clear that those who are of the anti-vax stance have repeatedly appealed to a rather dubious melange of highly disreputable sources.
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Andre, what does this post have to do with the clip I posted? The clip looks fairly straightforward.
The Pastor broke the law as far as I can determine. And the law is highly reasonable - this is not a case where one can take "I am fighting an unjust law" position. The video casts the pastor in a sympathetic light when, in fact, he is literally endangering lives by encouraging people to break public safety regulations.
All the chest-thumping in the world about freedom (as if freedom were the only consideration in this matter) does not change the harsh facts of realily: there is a dangerous virus afoot in the world, and we need to take somewhat extraordinary temporary measures to combat it.
The credibility of the source of the clip is very much relevant - when the clip casts the pastor in a sympathetic light, people should have some insight into the credibility of the source.
As you must surely know, citing weird, disreputable, conspiracy-theory-promoting, and sometimes anti-semitic sites is par for the course in this forum. And so is out-and-out lying.
Somebody needs to speak out.
Nothing in the clip says he broke any law. He was in transit from the US to Canada. So, what law did he break? Did he violate a condition of parole or bail?
Come on, now - are you suggesting that this pastor was arrested for no reason at all? Nothing in the clip tells us why he was arrested so we need more information. You posted the clip, so please tell us why he was being arrested. I would be stunned if the arrest were not related to his violation of public health guidelines.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
He was arrested on a contempt of court charge and violation of a court order. He and his brother have on a number of times thumbed their noses at the law and the courts here so sorry I do not feel sorry for him at all. As Andre said we are in the midst of a serious covid problem here and this man and his church just refuse to accept that. He wants to play the martyr but he is just a bad example of a christian.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
I am surprised that you would think that flaunting the health law is something to be proud of. We as Christians are supposed to be a light to the world an example. Well I guess you were an example but in this case a bad one.
Andre, Silverhair, what you are running into is the long and honorable American tradition of civil disobedience. Further, I view the situation from the POV of someone whose father-in-law served time in a Soviet jail for not cooperating with the KGB.
In the United States, our government, our Caesar is a binding document called the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Caesar is clear on the matter, that those of any religion have the right to assemble at their place of worship at any time for any reason. We have it in the 1st Amendment of our Bill of Rights. I wish we could have some kind of more Christian-based theocratic republic, but I don't get to choose Caesar.
Therefore, the conflict for many Christians is at two different levels:
Applicable to the U.S (I don't know if Canada has something similar in their 'Constitution' for Artur)
1. Should Christians obey a man (politician) vs Caesar (Constitution)? The Bible tells us to obey Caesar in matters that do not belong to God. To obey Caesar, we must disobey any politician of any party or political persuasion that attempts to interfere with the free exercise of Religion as ordered by Caesar.
Applicable to ALL Christians
2. A man (or even Caesar depending on Canada's governing document) is telling Christians to forsake the gathering together. God tells us to not forsake our gathering together. We must obey God rather than man.
So yes, I am quite proud of my Church and my fellow Mennonite, Baptist, Presbyterian and Methodist brethren here in Far Northwestern NC for our disregard of man and our adherence to both Caesar AND God. Most of us here, including myself have roots in North America going back to the early 1600s and I thank God we have retained our ancestor's spines and stand unbowed and uncowed for Christ.
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But the cause has to be good.
Here, the cause is clearly reckless, dangerous, and irresponsible.
Any time?
That may be what the letter of your Constitution says, but it is clearly not the spirit.
Suppose covid was 100% fatal - by your reasoning, we should defend this pastor's right to effectively slaughter his congregation by having them gather and expose each other to Covid.
No one here is opposed to the "right of religious assembly" - some of us simply recognize that this right sometimes need to be temporarily suspended for dire public health emergenciesé