NEW Testament six days of creation

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

To Hope of Glory. Sure, I accept everything you say, but it's not what I wanted.

It has been said it isn't clear what I mean. That's right! I don't want to say it myself; I thought anybody would be able to see. And the way it goes now, I think the Essence of it also becomes clearer and clearer. Just now the rest - those literal six days of creation - will follow - and in proper order, because they are not the Essence.

 

[BobRyan]

For Bob Ryan: "And I, if I be lifted up, shall draw ALL THINGS unto me." I want to show you the true and real Day of God's Finished creation. ('All men', here, is wrong and out!)

What - well known -- qualified group of Bible translators rendered John 12:32 and "DRAW ALL THINGS"???

 

[Hope of Glory]

It simply says "all". If you look at the italics in the KJV, you will know that it's a word they added that's not in the original text. It's interpretation, not translation.

The majority of translations simply leave it "all", a couple put "all people".

But, it simply says "all".

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

It simply says "all". If you look at the italics in the KJV, you will know that it's a word they added that's not in the original text. It's interpretation, not translation.

The majority of translations simply leave it "all", a couple put "all people".

But, it simply says "all".

GE:

Glad you noticed. The Greek is interestingly specific. If compared with the few other cases more or less the same is said about Jesus' being 'lifted up', the difference of this instance becomes more apparent. in John 3 'men' are meant : all those men who believe. (15) But in both chapters 8 and 12, the emphasis - in fact the whole context, points to Jesus as the Fulness of the Mystery of Godliness; the Eschatos; the Grand Object (and Subject) of all prophecy and the Word of God. "Then shall ye know that I am (He) ...!" (8:28) In 12:34 Jesus clearly refers to the LAW; in 31 to the JUDGMENT. He as it were "pulls (elkuoh) everything (written concerning Me -Luke) towards and upon" Himself.

Jesus fulfills the Scriptures; He also fulfils the Creation-Scriptures. In fact, Jesus fulfils the creation-Scriptures THE FIRST TIME! So now we have better indication of the 'six New Testament days of creation' implied --- they surround this day of Jesus being "lifted up". This day constitutes one of them. So there I've given away my secret. Now we must only colour in the rest of those days.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

One may also observe the word "all"-'pahs'.
3:15: "Whosever that believeth" > 'pahs ho pisteuohn': "receive eternal life" - undoubtedly 'men'-'anthrohpos'.
8:28 -- 'pahs' is absent. In its stead, its opposite occurs: "I do NOTHING ('ouden') of myself". "These things I speak - 'tauta laloh' -- that the Father taught Me." It's not just people that are saved by Jesus' being lifted up; it is the Eternal Council of God that is being excuted and "finished"! "Thy WILL be done".


In 12 it is "'pantas'-"all things" also. "This ('touto') He said, signifying WHAT DEATH, He was about to die!"

In Jesus crucifixion He brought all things together in and upon Himself. Of course, we men, the saved, or, believers, are included under and in the "all things"; just read Colossians 2:12 on!
Marvelous, amazing, exiting, fantastic, entertaining to the uttermost of and to every faculty of human intelligence and adoration!

In

 

[BobRyan]

It is actually pretty simple.

In John 6 - John relates the importance of God DRAWING mankind in order that they might be saved.

In John 12:32 John simply expands that idea showing that God DRAWS ALL not just some of them.

John 12
25 "" He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it to life eternal.
26 ""If anyone serves Me, he must follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also; if anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him.


This is the “all” the “unqualified all” scope of John 12. Christ does not say “only some of those who love their life will lose it”. Christ does not say “only some of those who discount their life in this world will keep it”. Christ does not say “for some of you – serving Me will mean following Me – for WHERE I am there a few of my servants will be also”. Christ does not say “The Father will honor some of those who serve Me”. Nor does He say “some of you will be allowed to choose to Serve Me”.

The statement above works as an all inclusive showing that to EVERYONE the call goes out and ANYONE may choose to serve, to honor, to follow Christ.

By Contrast – Christ shows that the message about being celebate is NOT for all mankind or even all of His followers. Matt 19:11


]
27 "" Now My soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, " Father, save Me from this hour'? But for this purpose I came to this hour.
28 "" Father, glorify Your name.'' Then a voice came out of heaven: ""I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.''
29 So the crowd of people who stood by and heard it were saying that it had thundered; others were saying, "" An angel has spoken to Him.''
30 Jesus answered and said, "" This voice has not come for My sake, but for your sakes.
31 "" Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
32 ""And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.''

Christ is not using a slippery marketing tactic to make it “Appear” that He is more generous than He really is. He does not say “I draw at least one of every KIND of human”. Yet for some this is what they want Christ to be saying here. Rather the statement is framed in a way that fits the Arminian model perfectly. It must be “edited” to make it Calvinist

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Universalism or free will or whatever -- I haven't got a thing to say about it here - Jn12! But this, as quoted by yourself:

27 Now My soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, Father, save Me from this hour? But for this purpose I came to this hour.
28 Father, glorify Your Name. Then a voice came out of heaven: I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.
29 So the crowd of people who stood by and heard it were saying that it had thundered; others were saying, An angel has spoken to Him.
30 Jesus answered and said, This voice has not come for My sake, but for your sakes.
31 Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all these things ('pantas' here and now pronounced) unto Myself (in fulfilment).

Forget your anthropo-centric approach - see the wider scope of God's whole design in saving all His creation.
What imminently was to happen in the greater plan of God for the salvation of His creation - as revealed in His Word the Scriptures about the Messaiah -- that is what is here at stake.

'ho / heh anthrohpos' Mannlich oder Weiblich, it is true, so 'pantas' - not 'panta' Neuter. First time I noticed. Nevertheless, the concept is inclusive of all men and all things. Without the salvation of men there's no salvation of the 'world'. But surely you won't deny the salvation of all things and all the world is at stake here? What the context certainly is not about, is an either / or situation regarding predestinated election versus freewil decision.

 

[BobRyan]

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

32"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

King James Version (KJV)

32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

New International Version (NIV)

32But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."

 

[Hope of Glory]

Analytical-Literal Translation:

"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw [or, drag] all to Myself."

CLV:

And I, if I should be exalted out of the earth, shall be drawing all to Myself."

REV:

And, I, if I be lifted up out of the earth, will draw, all, unto myself.

I can paste as many as you can.

The point is, the word "men" is not in the Greek. The italics in the KJV lets us know that they are aware of that, but they are adding it because they think the context calls for it.

Some agree, others disagree.

However, the unassailable fact is that the word is not in the Greek.

Is that what it implies?

Perhaps.

But, why not debate from the truth, which is that it is not there, and show why you think it belongs there, based on context, other Scripture, etc.

If your stand is righteous, you don't need to us an untruth to prove you're right.

 

[BobRyan]

We see the term for "anyone" in vs 26 and "ALL" in Vs 32 -- the context shows that the scope and context is ALL mankind.

Question: How in the world do we find a convoluted link between this and Genesis 1???

 

[Hope of Glory]

We see the term for "anyone" in vs 26 and "ALL" in Vs 32 -- the context shows that the scope and context is ALL mankind.

Now, with that, that's a logical argument for its inference.

Does anyone disagree?

Question: How in the world do we find a convoluted link between this and Genesis 1???

I'm curious, as well.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

We see the term for "anyone" in vs 26 and "ALL" in Vs 32 -- the context shows that the scope and context is ALL mankind.

Question: How in the world do we find a convoluted link between this and Genesis 1???

GE:

I have conceded above 'pantas' being either masc. or fem, not neuter. So you're right, but us too, for seeing more in it than just 'willing freewillers'. If you are not able by faith to behold Genesis 1 and 2 in this word, I'm afraid no one is able to help you. You miss out on wonderful truth though. But for what?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

BobRyan:

Question: How in the world do we find a convoluted link between this and Genesis 1???


Hope of Glory:

I'm curious, as well.

GE:

Answer: Luke 24:44,
"These are the Words which I spake unto you, that ALL THINGS, must be fulfilled which were written in the Law, of Moses, and the prophets, and, the Psalms, CONCERNING ME. Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the SCIPTURES ... thus it is WRITTEN, and THUS, it behoved the CHRIST, to suffer, and to rise, from the dead, the third day."

Here are the six days of creation implied and indicated: of the world and of 'all things'; implied and indicated for those days of Jesus' 'suffering' until His resurrection the 'third day according to the Scriptures'.

From the nothingness, chaos and darkness of the beginning to the Seventh Day of God's Rest: through, in, and for, Jesus Christ. Without this its completion and perfection: Jesus Christ we would not now have here conversed. There would have been only the nothingness, chaos and darkness of a beginning and creation that never had been.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

From the first to “the third day according to the Scriptures”. "Six days before |Passover", Nisan 10, Jn12:1​

. . . the first day, 14 Nisan, “Preparation of the Passover”, Thursday, begins :

“Evening” – Preparation for, and the Lord’s Supper

Mk.14:12, 17, Lk.22:7, 14, Jn.13:1-17:26 ​

“Night” – Anguish, Betrayal, Denial
Mt.12:40, Mk.14:26-42, Jn.18:1-27

“Early” – Trial, Delivered, Way to Cross
Jn.18:28-19:22

Middle Day – Crucifixion, Mocking, Darkness,

Mk.15:25, 29, 33, Jn.19:23-29

“The ninth hour”, Afternoon – Died, Deserted

Mt.27:46, Jn.19:30, Lk.23:48
. . . the second day, 15 Nisan, Passover Feast, “The Fore-Sabbath”, Friday, begins:

“Evening” – Jews, “after this”, Joseph
Jn.19:31-40, Mk.15:42, Mt.27:57, Lk.23:52;
“Night” – Took the body down, prepared
Mk.15:42-46b, Mt.27:58-59, Lk.23:53a Jn.19:32-40
“Afternoon” – Buried
Mk.15:46c-47, Mt.27:60-61, Lk.23:53b-56b, Jn.19:41-42

. . . “the third day”, 16 Nisan, First Sheaf Wave Offering, “Sabbath”, begins :

“Began to rest”
Lukas 23:56c

“Morning” – Guard
Only Mt.27:62-66
“Afternoon” – Resurrected
Only Matthew 28:1-4

. . . the fourth day, 17 Nisan, Sunday, begins :
“The Sabbath past”
Only Mark 16:1

“Early darkness”, first sight of opened grave
Only John 20:1-2
“So shall the Son of Man have been in the heart of the earth for three days and for three nights” when raised from the dead “for a sign”! Matthew 12:40.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Voorlaaste optrede in Juda
Neem die maand Abib waar!
Op, na Jerusalem!
Die Neerdaling het begin!
Aankoms 8 Vrydag
“Waar Lasarus gebly het”Jh12:1 9 Sabbat “Ses dae voor”
“Die volgende dag”Jh12:12 10 Sondag 5 ” ”
“Die volgende dag”Mk11:12 11 Maandag 4 ” ”
“Oor twee dae gekruisig”Mt26:2 12 Dinsdag 3 ” ”
“Oor twee dae Fees”Mk14:1 13 Woensdag 2 ” ”
“Voorbereiding van Pasga”Jh19:14 14 Donderdag “Voor die Fees”
Die dag het beginLk22:7 Jh13:1
Toe die uur gekom hetLk22:14
Gedurende die maaltyd
Dit was nag Jh13:30
Oor DonkerspruitJh18:1
Plek van die wynpersMk14:32