News: Atheist Scout given a week to declare belief

Eagle Scout Darrell Lambert has earned 37 merit badges, worked more than 1,000 hours of community service and helps lead a Boy Scout troop in his hometown.

But the 19-year-old has another distinction that may lead to his removal from the Boy Scouts: He's an atheist.

Last week, Lambert was given roughly a week by the Boy Scouts' regional executive to declare belief in a supreme being and comply with Boy Scout policy, or quit the Scouts.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/West/10/31/atheist.scout.ap/index.html

[ November 19, 2002, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: The Squire ]

 

While I'm not thrilled about him being an atheist, the thumbs down is for the way the scouts are trying to compell him to acknowledge a supreme being. They aren't very picky either... "Mother Nature" would be fine.

This whole mess is sub-Christian.

 

No one is arguing that...

Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Remember, we're talking about kids starting Boy Scouts at about 12-13. Then again, maybe he "believed" when he started, but has become disillusioned and lost whatever childhood "faith" he had. This happened to my brother at 16... He asked too many of the wrong kind of questions at church and the youth group, led by the youth minister, went on the attack -- trying to win him back to the faithful by sending him anonymous letters threatening the fires of hell for not simply accepting everything at face value. He is 40 now and has renounced his faith in Christ.

I have a lot of sympathy for teenagers who get a little mixed-up trying to balance the world's rationalism and a living faith, and I *know* that pressuring teens to be religious hypocrites is extremely destructive to true faith.

 

Based on this insight and what lots of teens go through when struggling with issues of faith, my guess is that his atheism is a fairly recent position.

 

The fact that they really don't care *if* he believes, only that he *affirms* he believes makes these "faith statements" meaningless -- except to people who like some integrity to their faith (or lack of faith). Boy Scouts who have made faith affirmations in good conscience should be incensed by the attitude seemingly portrayed here that religious faith is a matter of verbal assent.

I certainly hope the view that was expressed by the scout leader in this story is not the official view of the Boy Scouts of America...

If it is, I don't think I'll donate money to scouting anymore.

 

Yep. No one has argued against that as far as I can tell…

Yes… Interesting. I wonder why the Scouts are suddenly having a problem here. The only thing I can guess is that this scout’s religious outlook has changed recently – or he’s decided to stop being a hypocrite.

Interesting point. I only did Cub Scouts (I didn’t care for it – I was only in it because my parents sponsored a group because of my brother) and I completed and left the program without joining a Boy Scout troop, so I wasn’t sure of the upper age limit. I’ve heard of most Eagle Scouts being somewhere around 17 or 18. Is that correct?

Taking a stand for something you truly believe in is not being a “jerk” in my book. I’ve taken stands for Christ that upset people before and I wasn’t doing it to be a jerk.

Where are you getting this information? Do you know him or someone who knows him?

A club that likes to promote the value of faith, but (at least in this case) makes it clear that faith is little more than lip service…

I think the Scouts are probably still a very good organization, but, in my opinion, they are flat wrong in this case.

Meanwhile the scout leadership is teaching scouts that real faith in a higher authority is not important… only making an affirmation regarding the existence of a higher authority – even a “higher authority” as meaningless as “Mother Nature”.

 

Congratulations on your accomplishment.

I reread the article... he is actually *helping* with the scouts now.

In my opinion, atheism is not so much a lack of belief in God, but rather an anger or disgust at religion in general. To declare oneself and atheist, you declare that you are not part of a religious system.

Even a non-existent one (i.e. "Mother Nature") In my opinion, the leadership of the troop was not being generous (although I'm certain that was their intent), but instead completely demeaning the nature of faith affirmations by asking only for a statement and placing a time limitation on it. This is the issue that I'm concerned about.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.... I know... *No one* is arguing that point They have the right to say 'everyone must renounce their faith within ten days or else be kicked out' if they really wanted to do it. That is the right of the leadership to determine. It is also my right to determine if the organization is upholding their integrity since I contribute to some United Way charities. (Some United Way groups support Boy Scouts.) I also have the right to stop giving if I don't like what they are doing.

This issue is not so much about rights, but what the purpose of the affirmation of a higher power is all about if it is essentially meaningless like the leadership in this case seem to indicate.

Um, no they're not... As you just stated, they are a private organization and this rule is a private rule. Citizens who live under the civil codes in regular society are not required to take religious tests or make affirmations.

They are certainly teaching scouts something about religious affirmations...

He will probably do that... On his way out though, he is making a point about the blatant problem of what a scout's word means/doesn't mean.

The result for some scouts will be that they see their word is considered to be meaningless.

This really isn't about good behavior. This is about the hypocrisy of the leadership.

This sort of thing makes very poor leadership. In essence, the leadership is telling scouts that it is okay to say anything as long as it keeps you out of trouble. ("I did not have sexual relations with that women... Ms. Lewinsky...)

How did homosexuals get into this conversation?

What's that supposed to mean?

Look... I wouldn't have had much of an issue with this if the leadership had simply said that if this man professes atheism, he's out. That's the cost of taking an unpopular stand.

But what is cooked about this is that he has a week to decide if there is a higher power (like you can put a time limit on someone to come to this important of a conclusion) and also the willingness to accept a nonsense "higher power" like "Mother Nature".

 

I don't know if I would call that hypocrisy... He's not saying one things and doing another.

I think some people are under the impression that I want the Scouts to change their policy of requiring a statement of faith... That's not correct.

I think the *way* the scouts are handling it is the problem.

 

This is where we disagree. Nobody else but you here seems to think there is a problem with the policy.[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]You've made an assumption here. I don't disagree with a policy of having a faith statement. I disagree with the way the scout leaders seem to think it doesn't mean anything because they are willing to accept a statement affirming "Mother Nature" -- essentially a statement that is meaningless -- just so the teen can meet the letter of the law.

How do you know he's spoiled?