News: Less Conservative Baptists Meet in Charlotte This Week

Would somebody who is affiliated with the CBF please tell me one example of how they are the least bit conservative at all, let alone less conservative. The truth is that they are just a haven of liberals. They should pull out of the convention and start their own denomination where the Bible doesn't matter and nobody cares a lick about morallity.

Joseph Botwinick

 

What sort of examples would suffice for you? I’m not sure what you consider “conservative”.

There are some liberals in the CBF. There are some moderates in the CBF. There are some conservatives in the CBF. The CBF is full of Christians who are working to serve God according to the scripture and their convictions.

1.) Most CBF people are not associated with the SBC anymore.
2.) CBF has intentionally avoided becoming a traditional denomination – instead, it is a Fellowship of churches working together for the purposes of missions and education.
3.) Why should CBF want to start a denomination where “the Bible doesn't matter and nobody cares a lick about morallity” since CBF people believe the Bible and are concerned about morality?

Your contempt for the CBF and your willingness to misrepresent them is duly noted. If you care about your Bible and morality, then please read up on the commandment about bearing false witness and then go talk to people who are associated with the CBF and talk to them about their views. You may not agree with them, but I believe you will find that they do think the "Bible matters" and they do have moral concerns.

 

There are many people within the CBF whose theology is indistinguishable from that of the SBC. There are many people within the CBF who make me look conservative (no, I'm not kidding).

The CBF works to be a big tent with room for all baptists, and hasn't become a denomination because it wants to avoid the mistakes of the old SBC. The SBC went from a cooperative mission-sending organization to a top-down denomination. The CBF hopes to avoid repeating that error.

Personally, I think there is a place for gboth. If the CBF stays true to its purpose, it's a handy thing to have. I like the idea of a common meeting ground for baptists. On the other hand, I prefer a little more accountability and theological uniformity. Hence, I do not deny the SBC their right to become whatever they wish; and I'm likewise grateful for the Alliance.

Joshua

 

quoting Baptist Believer:

What a gracious answer to such the ungracious comment made by Joseph Botwinick. And also a very good description of CBF. I knew you had to be a BGCT type Baptist. So many people make uninformed statements because they have never looked at a situation.

 

as tantamount to an accusation of lying. Such accusations will not be tolerated. </font>[/QUOTE]I did not intend to say that Joseph was lying… only that he needs to take stock of what the Bible says about bearing false witness and then actually investigate CBF and speak truth about it than make careless accusations that CBF members do not care about the Bible or morality.

I apologize for any confusion my lack of clarity may have caused.

 

Forgive me, but who is the WWE?

 

So, basically, it's allowed to make any unsupported derogatory statements on the board but it's not OK to call someone to task for those statements? BTW, what is the WWE?

 

So far I've only seen a claim from Joseph that "the Bible doesn't matter" to the CBF and "nobody cares a lick about morality". That's mere opinion - and very poor opinion since several CBF supporters who posted in response do seem to care about the Bible and morality. I'd say that's evidence! But where is Joseph's evidence to support his accusations about CBF people?

I certainly hope you can appreciate that Baptists can form a fellowship that allows churches to practice autonomy regarding social issues. Furthermore, a belief that women are called by God to pastor is held by many Baptists to be a valid interpretation of Paul's writings and the teachings of Jesus. Acceptance of homosexual unions is much less common among Baptists (and CBF folks!), but there are people who sincerely believe churches should received homosexuals based on their understanding of scripture.

Perhaps Joseph could rework his comments to direct them against certain CBF people who he does not believe are concerned about the Bible or morality instead of making sweeping judgments.

 

Ah, here’s one of the issues. The CBF does not use a creed or confession and does not require churches or individuals to adhere to a certain theological stance. As far as I know, the CBF does not hold a “set of positions” on these issues.

I affirm that women are called of God to serve as pastors because of the writings of Paul. It has been discussed in other forums and I have cited a conservative and scholarly reference (“Pauline Theology: Ministry and Society” by E. Earle Ellis) that clearly explains my position on the subject. As for homosexuality, my position is well known here – I strongly disagree with Joshua.

But that wouldn’t be the CBF. That would be some individuals, some churches and the Alliance of Baptists.

Sometimes, but if you read Ellis’ work, you’ll see that your opinion is not necessarily valid regarding women in vocational ministry.

[ June 23, 2003, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: Baptist Believer ]

 

Agreed. This is somewhat off the subject, but I wanted to stress that those who hold views that may be dissimilar to yours and Joseph's do not necessarily throw out the Bible and a moral code. It is a false assumption.

It is not. It is based on the whole message of Paul in regard to church life and the role of women in the church in particular.

 

Dear Joseph,

Here is a link that will help you understand the CBF a little better. You are wrong in your assessment and should inform yourself on the matter. When one is uninformed one is always in danger of bearing a "false witness." You should produce evidence to support you claim and if you can't you should apologize for you will allegations.

 

opps, forgot the link http://www.truthaboutcbf.net/newsstand/krs/

 

Dear Joseph,

Here is a link that will help you understand the CBF a little better. You are wrong in your assessment and should inform yourself on the matter. When one is uninformed one is always in danger of bearing a "false witness." You should produce evidence to support you claim and if you can't you should apologize for you will allegations. </font>[/QUOTE]I like what Joshua said on page 1 about the cbf

There are many people within the CBF who make me look conservative (no, I'm not kidding).

I have saw this to be true as well and i feel that Joseph's claims were valid and quite fair.

Murph

 

Except that that's not all Joshua said... He mentioned the diversity of views in CBF. Therefore Joseph's blanket assertions are not valid and not fair.

There have been a significant number of pastors in the SBC who are 5-point Calvinists, but it would be foolish and inaccurate for me to say that Southern Baptist pastors are 5-point Calvinists.

[ June 24, 2003, 12:41 AM: Message edited by: Baptist Believer ]