News: To whom does the land of Palestine belong?????

What a great article and a great website, Grasshopper. Thanks.

 

Quote from link Grasshopper gave:

The entire tendency of this theological system is to lead us all back to Judaism.

This writer feels that all of us who believe that God will keep His word to Abraham regarding the land promised to his seed are really trying to lead others back to judaism. There is much I dissagree with in this trash but I feel that this statement alone is proof enough of it's error.
Murph

 

Excellent article, grasshopper! As an interesting adjunct to what has already been sid in the article, I have heard it argued elsewhere that pre-millenial dispensationalism, far from being 'pro-Jewish', could in fact be construed as being anti-Semitic as (from what I understand from people like Hal Lindsey), PMDism (or at least one form of it) wants the Jews to return to Israel and for Israel to be strong...only for two-thirds of them to be annihilated in the battle of Armageddon as a necessary prelude to us all being raptured. Now, I'm sure that the PMDers on this board don't have this extreme view, but I'd be interested to hear whether others have come across it.

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

Matt are you suggesting that we should attempt to change the future as God's word clearly states it will occur. Is it realistic to think anyone can or should be able to keep the Jews from fulfilling their destiny. And to claim anti semitism is amazing. Once again I say the article is nothing but trash.
Murph

 

At the end of the day (in more ways than one!), only God knows how things are going to come to pass. The fact that there are so many different forms of eschatology abounding not just on these boards but in the wider church beyond demonstrates that God's Word is anything but clear on the subject. It's really the attitude behind some of PMDism that I was questioning - any view that can look forward to 2/3 of a nation being exterminated ("cos we'll be alright so that's OK then")is abhorrent.

If the basic premise of the article is that salvation is no longer dependent on a land or a people but on a Person, then I fail to see how this can be trash - what exactly is your problem with it?

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

What a bunch of liberal anti-Semitic hogwash!

I say liberal because it is liberals who parse words such as "is" and now in this article, attempting to parse the word "everlasting" as in the Covenant God made with Abraham.

Maybe someone should inform the author that the New Jerusalem WILL be on earth, too. Guess he skipped over that part.

This is yet a variation of the doctrine of Replacement Theology (originating from RCC / Augustine and now seemingly embraced by some who call themselves Baptist).

Is this preached in the Baptist churches you guys attend ?

I, for one, would be curious to see the web sites of your home Baptist churches and what their doctrinal statements say regarding this issue. Real curious.

[ June 16, 2003, 07:12 AM: Message edited by: SheEagle9/11 ]

 

Wow, the Parousia is nigh (guess we'll now find out for sure how it really happens) - liberals are officially anti-Semitic! Try telling that to Hitler!

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

Do you want me to retort: your view is yet a variation of pre-millenial dispensationalism (originating from Darby and the Plymouth Brethren and now seemingly embraced by some who call themselves Baptist)?

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

Hitler was a socialist.

 

Why do premillennial dispensationals take such umbrage when anyone dares to debate them on eschatology? What kind of mindset do these people have that causes them to cast slander on fellow Christians by calling them anti-Semtic over the interpretation of what anyone with a lick of sense knows is highly symbolic Bible language? I find it amazing that they appear to believe that just about every Christian was anti-Semitic prior to 1830, except for perhaps a weirdo like Montanus.

Although in listening to Kim Riddlebarger talk about his youth as a premillennial dispensationalist on the "Bible Answer Man" radio show he admitted that he was so caught up in dispensationalism to the point where he questioned whether non-dispensationalists were saved. That mindset is every bit as awful as the ultra-conservative members of the Church of Christ who believe that only members of their denomination will be saved.

 

Do you believe that anyone who is not a premillennial dispensationalist is a liberal and anti-Semitic? Please, no obfuscation.

 

Read the manifesto here....

http://jonjayray.batcave.net/hitler.html

To get back to the original premise, Who owns the Land?

God does.

Does God tell us how this will end?

Yes, through Biblical prophecy.

What does Biblical prophecy say will happen?

The anti-Christ will negotiate a peace agreement between Israel and the Arab nations.

Those who equate the Nazis with the Far Right have bought into a lie. Hitler was aligned with socialists - the left.

Replacement theology is another lie originating from the father of lies. Period.

Regardless of one's views of eschatology, to support and/or appease (by giving into their demands) homicide bombers whose objective is to wipe the Jewish people from the face of the earth, is anti-Christ, anti-God, no matter who it is who supports these homicidal maniacs, be it the EU, the UN, President Bush, or certain "Baptists."

The similarities between Hitler's hatred of Jews and the hatred towards Jews by Islamic homicide bombers and the terrorist groups of Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Aqsa Martyr Brigade, the PLO, Islamic Jihad and others is so striking, one would have to be an ostrich not to see it. For one to call themselves a Baptist and be in favor of making deals with homicide bombers whose end game is destruction of all Christians and Jews is a contradiction.

The time is very ripe for the true anti-Christ spoken of in Revelation to emerge.

What all true Bible believing Christians should be doing is supporting the ministries who are already in Israel and trying to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the people who live there, instead of supporting a political process that undermines the values of Christianity and freedom.

Even so, Come, Lord Jesus.

 

Hey, Ken, I opened up a thread for you on this very subject here:

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001647

 

Hitler was a leftie? I'm so sorry, obviously the historians have been getting it wrong all these years. Thank you for enlightening this historical ignoramus...and for providing me with the best laugh I've had all day.

ROTFL!

Yours in Christ

Mat

 

Not all historians, just the revisionist historians. Hey, if I was on the left, I would want to claim old Adolf, either. LOL!

 

Hitler was not left or right wing in any traditional sense, he was a fascist.

Fascism is an entirely different form of government and philosophy to either socialism or conservativism - unless, you know something that I don't Sheeagle?

 

Yes, so why don't you start another thread and let us know how fascism and socialism are diametrically opposed?

Go for it! LOL!

 

here you go:

http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=000576

Your comments would be welcome