No Apostolic Succession

[Dr. Walter]

The Greek term translated "apostle" or apostolos or the plural apostoloi is used in two senses in the scripture. It is used in a technical sense where it refers exclusively to the apostolic office established by Christ and it is used as both a noun and verb in regard to church ordained and sent missionaries such as Barnabas (Acts 11:22; 14:4). Paul was both an apostle appointed directly by Christ and an authorized missionary sent by the church at Antioch with Barnabas (Acts 14:4; Rom. 1:1).

It is the technical sense that Rome claims apostolic succession. However, that is impossible and a complete misinterpretation of scriptures for the following reasons:

1. Apostles had to be eyewitnesses of the resurrection - Acts 1:21-22; I Cor. 15:8

2. Paul claims to be the "last" (Gr. eschatos) of all the apostles (I Cor. 15:8). The term "eschatos" is used three times in I Corinthians 15. It is used of the "last" Adam and "last" trump. It is the "last" with none to follow. There will be another Adam or another trump and neither will there be any other apostle after Paul.

3. The apostolic office is regarded as the "foundation" in the building of the church that has already been laid. It is not an ongoing office (Eph. 2:20) but was for the establishing and confirming of the church by signs and miracles distinct to its office (2 Cor. 12:12) and for the completion of the scriptuers as the final authority for faith and practice (Isa. 8:16-20 with Heb. 2:13; 2 Pet. 1:19-21; 3:15-17).

4. The Apostolic office were limited to the number of 12 unto the Jews and Paul was not of that number but was the apostle to the Gentiles (Gal. 3:9). Among the 12 when one died, as with Judas, then another qualified person filled his place. The number 12 was maintained. In Acts 1:21-22 there were only two other men who could meet the apostolic qualifications.

5. The keys given to Peter in Matthew 16:19 were entrusted to him in representative capacity of the church as the same keys are exercised by the PLURAL "you" in Matthew 18:18 contextually defined as "the church" in Matthew 18:17.

6. If the claim of apostolic succession had any Biblical validity today there would be 12 apostles not one as only the Gentiles were given one apostle and it was Paul not Peter.

7. The twelve apostles were given to the Jews not to gentiles (Gal. 2:9) and Peter was among the apostles given to the Jews.

 

[Zenas]

With only minor differences, I agree with what you have said down through paragraph 4, so I will only comment on paragraphs 5 through 7.

5. The keys given to Peter in Matthew 16:19 were entrusted to him in representative capacity of the church as the same keys are exercised by the PLURAL "you" in Matthew 18:18 contextually defined as "the church" in Matthew 18:17.

There are no keys mentioned in Matthew 18 and your theory is just that—your theory. You don’t even try to provide scriptural support for it because there is none.

6. If the claim of apostolic succession had any Biblical validity today there would be 12 apostles not one as only the Gentiles were given one apostle and it was Paul not Peter.
7. The twelve apostles were given to the Jews not to gentiles (Gal. 2:9) and Peter was among the apostles given to the Jews.

You’re making too much distinction between Jews and Gentiles.

28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.
Galatians 3:27-29

Moreover, you either don’t understand apostolic succession or you are trying to distort what it means. The Catholic Church does not contend that anyone has qualified for the office of apostle since the death of John. They are quite clear on that point. Not a single bishop has ever claimed the title of apostle. What they mean by apostolic succession is that all their priests and bishops were ordained by men who were ordained by men . . . who were ordained by one of the apostles. Every ordained man can trace his ordination back to an apostle.
Incidentally, most of the apostles ministered to the Gentiles after their initial success in Judea. Remember, they were to be witnesses in Jerusalem, in Judea, in Samaria and even to the ends of the earth. Peter spent his last days ministering in Rome to a church that contained both Jews and Gentiles.

 

[Matt Black]

IN Christ Jesus there is no Jew nor Gentile.

 

[billwald]

If Paul is a different sort of Apostle (to gentiles) then anyone who claims to have had a vision of Jesus could also claim to be an Apostle to . . . space aliens, for example.

 

[targus]

If Paul is a different sort of Apostle (to gentiles) then anyone who claims to have had a vision of Jesus could also claim to be an Apostle to . . . space aliens, for example.

Thanks for that bit of nonsense, Troll.

 

[Doubting Thomas]

With only minor differences, I agree with what you have said down through paragraph 4, so I will only comment on paragraphs 5 through 7.
Quote:
5. The keys given to Peter in Matthew 16:19 were entrusted to him in representative capacity of the church as the same keys are exercised by the PLURAL "you" in Matthew 18:18 contextually defined as "the church" in Matthew 18:17.
There are no keys mentioned in Matthew 18 and your theory is just that—your theory. You don’t even try to provide scriptural support for it because there is none.

I can't speak with certainty for Dr.Walter, but perhaps he meant to say the same power of the keys (ie binding and loosing) is mentioned in both passages regardless of whether or not 'keys' themselves were mentioned.

However, I also want to express my agreement with your correction of Walter's misconception of apostolic succession here...

Moreover, you either don’t understand apostolic succession or you are trying to distort what it means. The Catholic Church does not contend that anyone has qualified for the office of apostle since the death of John. They are quite clear on that point. Not a single bishop has ever claimed the title of apostle. What they mean by apostolic succession is that all their priests and bishops were ordained by men who were ordained by men . . . who were ordained by one of the apostles. Every ordained man can trace his ordination back to an apostle.
Incidentally, most of the apostles ministered to the Gentiles after their initial success in Judea. Remember, they were to be witnesses in Jerusalem, in Judea, in Samaria and even to the ends of the earth. Peter spent his last days ministering in Rome to a church that contained both Jews and Gentiles

Well said. :thumbs: