No Literal Hell?

[th1bill]

I have just been surfing a few Christian Forum sites and the things promoted by people naming the name of Christ amazes me. Over the years I have heard the name Rob Bell more than once and in seeking the wisdom of other Basics Grounded Teachers have avoided wasting my funds on the books he pushes as Christian. There is a post on one forum this morning that seeks? to equip other members of this particular forum for the upcoming debate that is, apparently, sure to come. I'm going to attempt to be kind here but the truth is that in his link I did not find the scriptures.By the scriptures, of course, I mean the Bible, the Word of God's personal revelation of Himself.

The book, it is reported by the poster, is concerning the lack of any real Hell. In all the copies of the Bible that I own Genesis 1:1 points out that it is Almighty God that created the Universe and all that it contains. And when we go to John 1:1-3 we learn that the Son of God, popularly known as God in the flesh and Jesus, is the Creator of all of this. As it is very popular to ignore the Bible and to read the Commentary instead, I'll limit this post, from here forward to that Commentary, the New Testament. In the Four Gospels, Jesus/God taught more on the turth and fact of Hell than He did on Heaven. If any of us then puts it forward that there is no such place as a literal Hell... we are guilty of calling God a liar!


I know that I will stand, what is popularly known as, the Bema Seat Judgment but I certainly never wish to even be near the Great White Throne Judgment and calling God a liar, directly or by inference, is one sure fire way to get there and to, experientially, find out that Hell is real and that it is never ending. Throughout the scriptures we find that God cannot tolerate sin in His presence and Jesus stated that he was 'the' way, 'the' way and 'the' life. (John 14:6) Not even that He was or might be one of the ways, He is The Way.(Emphasis mine.)



So my question is this, “Why do we believe that a Finite Man, created by God knows more that the Infinite Creator that has forever been?

 

[Alive in Christ]

They need their ears tickled.


The scriptures are so clear that there will be people in heaven, those saved by faith alone in Christ, and people in hell, who died willingly rejecting Christ.

There is a universalist forum similar to this one out there. I have never registered their to try and share the truth, but I have read some of their forum posts, though.

Those in charge here might not want a link posted to it, so I wont do that, but It should come up close to the top if you google:

"Universalist forums" or something like that.

AiC

 

[just-want-peace]

I shudder to think of the "word changers" facing God as He asks:

"I specifically told you in My Word ------, but you decided I meant ------! WHY DID YOU DO THAT????"

These folks better be a lot better at thinking on their feet than I expect they'll be!!

I'd much rather He tell me that I took His word TOO literal, than not literal enough.

 

[annsni]

People continue to think better of themselves. They do not follow the Scripture but instead follow what "feels good" and certainly the idea that God would never punish people feels good.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Rob Bell included in this excerp..

I'm not posting a link with this, since I'm not sure the ones in charge would want one posted. But after posting this I am going to contact a moderator, and it its OK I post a link.

This is an excerpt from a post on a Universalist forum. I'm posting this particular part because Rob Bell is included, and he has been a topic of conversation here recently.

Here is the exerpt...

0 to 5:18, the guest interviewer (Tony Jones) is introduced (Doug Pagitt was off doing missionary evangelism in Guatemala) and he and the program director (John Musik?) chat for a while. Nothing theological, just friends catching up.

5:18 to 7:45, Tony explains he'll be discussing RB's Love Wins, and talks a bit about Rob's life and ministry before LW. (But no theological details or discussion per se.)

7:45 to 12:00, Tony introduces the book--no details about the book, but he goes into some detail about the history of the controversy up to this point. Some things here I hadn't known about. (Zondervan dropped Rob last year despite a two-book contract, claims they didn't know what he was writing, but also says if they had known they still would have dropped him anyway. Martin Bashir turns out to have attended Tim Keller's church--which surprised me because he sounded rather more like a sceptical non-Christian in the interview.)

12:00 to 13:20, back from the commercial break, introducing KDR.

13:20, the interview with KDR actually begins.

13:47 to 16:20, KDR discusses difference between 'popular' notions of universalism and Christian universalism (broadly speaking).

16:20 to 18:20, KDR discusses Calv problems (generally) with CU, focusing mostly on faculty at Calvin College. Not much detail here (probably due to his focus on CC where people aren't saying much yet. He thinks some of the faculty actually agree with him but can't say so for fear of losing jobs!)

18:20 to 19:00, Tony seems to introduce the question of whether CU really is the Next Big Theological Debate among Christians and what kind of staying power it will have as such; but then Tony shifts back to a prior topic (probably because it has some relevance to how big and longstanding the controversy is likely to be)...

19:00 to 20:50, ...namely, KDR's impression that quite a few evangelical Christian scholars are already universalists or lean strongly that way (but can't say so for job security purposes). KDR talks about this a little more, particularly from a perspective of personal ministry. (Hearing this reminded me of stories indicating a substantial number of Jewish leaders in the first several Christian centuries were actually secretly Christian but were afraid to say so. )

21:49 to 26:04, back from commercial to the interview, Tony brings up the topic of free will in regard to universalism. KDR talks about why (from a scriptural standpoint) he accepts human free will as well as the importance of God's sovereignty. (I thought this section was pretty good.)

26:05 to 29:47, Tony segues from this topic into the question of whether there is a difference between Keith and Rob on the question of whether anyone at all suffers punishment from God (i.e. is in hell per se) post-mortem. But the topic, when Keith picks it up, seems to be more about whether or not Rob acknowledges the possibility that some people may forever reject God. Keith thinks Rob acknowledges this as a possibility in passing, but says this isn't enough to keep Rob out of the universalist camp. Tony comes back to the topic from the standpoint of ultra-universalism (i.e. no one will reject God at all once Jesus fully reveals Himself). I think Keith is trying to answer along the lines of 'God will keep persisting until He gets it done', thus even a never-ending resistance (even if that happened) could still involve Christian universalism (which by the way is something I've often said myself); but the implication also seems to be that Keith expects God to pull out all the stops and get it done faster than human free will would otherwise allow. (Which doesn't square well with Keith's affirmation of human free will, but he isn't entirely clear here what he's talking about. Tony certainly is talking about ultra-u though.)

 

[Alive in Christ]

I contacted a moderator, and the impression I got is that it would be better to not include a link.

 

[dwightp]

I read a book once that discussed how Christians often debate whether Hell is real and whether it is eternal. Yet, Christians have no problem at all accepting that heaven is real and eternal.

 

[convicted1]

If hell ain't eternal(or rather, the LoF) then heaven ain't eternal either. So yes, people who die(d) lost, will punish for eternity in the LoF, just as those who die(d) in Christ will rejoice in heaven for eternity.

 

[glazer1972]

I believe that hell is real, hot and the lost will suffer there.

 

[Jkdbuck76]

I shudder to think of the "word changers" facing God as He asks:

"I specifically told you in My Word ------, but you decided I meant ------! WHY DID YOU DO THAT????"

These folks better be a lot better at thinking on their feet than I expect they'll be!!

I'd much rather He tell me that I took His word TOO literal, than not literal enough.

Just don't go cutting off your hand or plucking out thine eye.

 

[Old Union Brother]

People continue to think better of themselves. They do not follow the Scripture but instead follow what "feels good" and certainly the idea that God would never punish people feels good.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
You are absolutely correct. I said something very close to this a couple of months ago and someone jumped all over me and told me I had no idea what scriptures taught.