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Non-Calls, how do you handle these verses?

R

R. Lawson

New Member
Isa 45:5 I am Jehovah, and there is none else; besides me there is no God. I will gird thee, though thou hast not known me;
Isa 45:6 that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none besides me: I am Jehovah, and there is none else.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

:wavey:
 
Q

quantumfaith

Active Member
R. Lawson said:
Isa 45:5 I am Jehovah, and there is none else; besides me there is no God. I will gird thee, though thou hast not known me;
Isa 45:6 that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none besides me: I am Jehovah, and there is none else.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

:wavey:
Click to expand...

Isaiah 45:7 in the King James Version reads, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” How does Isaiah 45:7 agree with the view that God did not create evil? There are two key facts that need to be considered. (1) The word translated “evil” is from a Hebrew word that means “adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery.” Notice how the other major English Bible translations render the word: “disaster” (NIV, HCSB), “calamity” (NKJV, NAS, ESV), and “woe” (NRSV). The Hebrew word can refer to moral evil, and often does have this meaning in the Hebrew Scriptures. However, due to the diversity of possible definitions, it is unwise to assume that “I create evil” in Isaiah 45:7 refers to God bringing moral evil into existence.

(2) The context of Isaiah 45:7 makes it clear that something other than “bringing moral evil into existence” is in mind. The context of Isaiah 45:7 is God rewarding Israel for obedience and punishing Israel for disobedience. God pours out salvation and blessings on those whom He favors. God brings judgment on those who continue to rebel against Him. “Woe to him who quarrels with his Master” (Isaiah 45:9). That is the person to whom God brings “evil” and “disaster.” So, rather than saying that God created “moral evil,” Isaiah 45:7 is presenting a common theme of Scripture – that God brings disaster on those who continue in hard-hearted rebellion against Him.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Isaiah-45-7.html
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
quantumfaith said:
Isaiah 45:7 in the King James Version reads, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” How does Isaiah 45:7 agree with the view that God did not create evil? There are two key facts that need to be considered. (1) The word translated “evil” is from a Hebrew word that means “adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery.” Notice how the other major English Bible translations render the word: “disaster” (NIV, HCSB), “calamity” (NKJV, NAS, ESV), and “woe” (NRSV). The Hebrew word can refer to moral evil, and often does have this meaning in the Hebrew Scriptures. However, due to the diversity of possible definitions, it is unwise to assume that “I create evil” in Isaiah 45:7 refers to God bringing moral evil into existence.

(2) The context of Isaiah 45:7 makes it clear that something other than “bringing moral evil into existence” is in mind. The context of Isaiah 45:7 is God rewarding Israel for obedience and punishing Israel for disobedience. God pours out salvation and blessings on those whom He favors. God brings judgment on those who continue to rebel against Him. “Woe to him who quarrels with his Master” (Isaiah 45:9). That is the person to whom God brings “evil” and “disaster.” So, rather than saying that God created “moral evil,” Isaiah 45:7 is presenting a common theme of Scripture – that God brings disaster on those who continue in hard-hearted rebellion against Him.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Isaiah-45-7.html
Click to expand...

If that was completely true David & Robb, then I wouldnt have found salvation. How do you explain that?
 
W

Winman

Active Member
I believe what God means by creating evil is that sin results in judgment and consequences. God is a righteous judge who cannot allow sin to go unpunished. If a nation turns from God and practices flagrant sin as Israel did, God brings "evil" against it as when they were overthrown by the Babylonians.

But it is not that the Babylonians suddenly decided to attack Israel out of the blue. You can be sure there were conflicts between the nations caused by Israel's sin.

It is the same with individuals. If a person practices sin like drunkedness, consequences can arise like being arrested for a DUI, or health problems.

This is not evil, these are the natural consequences for engaging in sin, but they do seem evil to the person whom these judgments come upon.
 
W

Winman

Active Member
I believe what God means by creating evil is that sin results in judgment and consequences. God is a righteous judge who cannot allow sin to go unpunished. If a nation turns from God and practices flagrant sin as Israel did, God brings "evil" against it as when they were overthrown by the Babylonians.

But it is not that the Babylonians suddenly decided to attack Israel out of the blue. You can be sure there were conflicts between the nations caused by Israel's sin.

It is the same with individuals. If a person practices sin like drunkedness, consequences can arise like being arrested for a DUI, or health problems.

This is not evil, these are the natural consequences for engaging in sin, but they do seem evil to the person whom these judgments come upon.

In a sense, it is natural law, if you sin evil will result, just as if you drink poison it will kill you.

For whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
 
R

R. Lawson

New Member
Here's what good ole' J. Vernon McGee says on the last verse:

Zoroastrianism began in Persia. It teaches that Mazda is the god of light. God says He creates light, and that it is no god. The Persians were getting very close to the truth. Many have wondered why they worshiped one god in the midst of idolatry. Well, you must remember that they came in contact with the nation Israel, and Israel was a witness to the world. In Zoroastrianism darkness was Ahriman, the god of evil. God takes responsibility for creating the darkness also.

"And create evil" -- the word evil does not mean wickedness in this instance, but rather "sorrow, difficulties, or tragedies" -- those things which are the fruit of evil, the fruit of sin. This is the Old Testament way of saying, "The wages of sin is death . . ." (Rom. 6:23). If you indulge in sin, there will be a payday for it!

By the way, let me introduce something else at this point, since we are living in a day when it is said that good and evil are relative terms, that whatever you think is good, is good. The argument is put forth: The Bible says "Thou shalt not kill" and "Thou shalt not steal" (Exod. 20:13, 15). But what is the Bible? Who should obey it? Or why should we listen to the God of the Bible?

The Lord has another very cogent argument. God says that if you indulge in sin, you will find that sin has its payday. It pays a full wage, by the way. This is what God is saying through Isaiah. God has so created the universe that when you break over the bounds that He has set, you don't need a judge, a hangman's noose, or an electric chair; God will take care of it.

He says, therefore, that He is the One who creates light and darkness. He is answering Zoroastrianism which worshiped the god of light. God says, "I want you to know that light is no god; I created it."
—J. Vernon McGee's Thru The Bible​
 
W

Winman

Active Member
R. Lawson said:
Here's what good ole' J. Vernon McGee says on the last verse:

Zoroastrianism began in Persia. It teaches that Mazda is the god of light. God says He creates light, and that it is no god. The Persians were getting very close to the truth. Many have wondered why they worshiped one god in the midst of idolatry. Well, you must remember that they came in contact with the nation Israel, and Israel was a witness to the world. In Zoroastrianism darkness was Ahriman, the god of evil. God takes responsibility for creating the darkness also.

"And create evil" -- the word evil does not mean wickedness in this instance, but rather "sorrow, difficulties, or tragedies" -- those things which are the fruit of evil, the fruit of sin. This is the Old Testament way of saying, "The wages of sin is death . . ." (Rom. 6:23). If you indulge in sin, there will be a payday for it!

By the way, let me introduce something else at this point, since we are living in a day when it is said that good and evil are relative terms, that whatever you think is good, is good. The argument is put forth: The Bible says "Thou shalt not kill" and "Thou shalt not steal" (Exod. 20:13, 15). But what is the Bible? Who should obey it? Or why should we listen to the God of the Bible?

The Lord has another very cogent argument. God says that if you indulge in sin, you will find that sin has its payday. It pays a full wage, by the way. This is what God is saying through Isaiah. God has so created the universe that when you break over the bounds that He has set, you don't need a judge, a hangman's noose, or an electric chair; God will take care of it.

He says, therefore, that He is the One who creates light and darkness. He is answering Zoroastrianism which worshiped the god of light. God says, "I want you to know that light is no god; I created it."
—J. Vernon McGee's Thru The Bible​
Click to expand...

I like J. Vernon McGee too. You can go to Blue Letter Bible and listen to his teachings of most every verse of the Bible. He was a great preacher, and how he explained this verse is what I believe as well, whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap. If you sow evil, you will reap evil, it is a natural law.
 
P

psalms109:31

Active Member
Through the Bible

J. Vernon McGee has a site Through the Bible, passed on, but his understanding of the scripture continues. To the O.P. I enjoyed hearing what other thought of the verse. When it comes to create evil, God created the one who became evil. God anointed and ordained him to be a Cherub, guardian until wickedness was found in him. God always has a purpose for us no matter what we become or what we deny.
 
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