All men universally are not elected to salvation, it is undeniable from Scripture that God will not in the last day save every individual of mankind! (Daniel 12:2; Matthew 25:46; John 5:29. Therefore, say we, God never designed to save every individual, since, if He had, every individual would and must be saved, for "His counsel shall stand, and He will do all His pleasure."
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Not Everyone
- Thread starter Zaatar71
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All men universally are not ordained to condemnation. There are some who are chosen (Matthew 20:16).
An election, or elect number, who obtain grace and salvation, while "the rest are blinded" (Romans 11:7), a little flock, to whom it is the Father's good pleasure to give the kingdom (Luke 12:32).
A people whom the Lord hath reserved (Jeremiah 1:20) and formed for Himself (Isa.43:21).
A peculiarly favored race, to whom "it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven," while to others "it is not given" (Matthew 13:11), a "remnant according to the election of grace" (Romans 11:5),
whom "God hath not appointed to wrath, but to obtain salvation by Jesus Christ" (1 Thessalonians 5:9).
In a word, who are "a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people, that they should show forth the praises of Him who hath called them out of darkness into His marvelous light" (1 Peter 2:9), and whose names for that very end "are in the book of life" (Phil.4:3) and written in heaven (Luke 10:20; Hebrews 12:23).
Luther observes that in Romans 9; Romans 10; Romans 11;
the apostle particularly insists on the doctrine of predestination, "Because," says he, "all things whatever arise from and depend upon the Divine appointment, whereby it was preordained who should receive the word of life and who should disbelieve it, who should he delivered from their sins and who should be hardened in them, who should be justified and who condemned."
Jerome Zanchius
...how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
I don't know the God you serve, @Zaatar71, he is foreign to me.
He is found by multitudes in the pages of Holy Scripture, he is available to everyone believing.
Notwithstanding God's predestination is most certain and unalterable, so that no elect person can perish nor any reprobate be saved, yet it does not follow from thence that all precepts, reproofs and exhortations on the part of God, or prayers on the part of man, are useless, vain and insignificant.
The God I serve wants all men everywhere to be saved. But all men everywhere will not repent.
God gives man the choice to serve Him or not, and just as Adam was beforehand given the consequences, so He gives it to all.
Acts 17:30-31
"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead."
God gives man the choice to serve Him or not, and just as Adam was beforehand given the consequences, so He gives it to all.
Acts 17:30-31
"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead."
The god you describe does not do the saving, evidently, it is up to man in your scheme. How did God in sending the flood in the day of Noah, want all men to be saved, if they were not in the Ark?
No, men are not born neutral, they are born rebels, and haters of God. They choose sin rather than God.
yes, all men everywhere are fully responsible to repent and believe.
Agreed all sin will be punished, in the sinner, or the Divine substitute.
Man could not choose Christ if God had not provided that choice.
God does all the saving, man is left with the choice of who he will serve, God or Satan.
It's one or the other, no exceptions.
Unsaved men , bound to sin and Satan, unless the Son sets them free; 2cor4:
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
If you do have a bible, it is available here; biblegateway.com
It's the hearing of the Gospel of Jesus Christ that opens the eyes and heart to all who will believe Him.
The Holy Spirit convicts of sin, and gives the hearer the opportunity to call on God with repentance.
Rom. 10:13
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Here's an example of the convicting power of the Holy Spirit through the hearing of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Acts 2:36-38 Peter is preaching at Pentecost to the crowd.
"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Agreed
You should read Spurgeon’s Around the Wicket Gate.
Spurgeon, who calls himself a Calvinist, is not nearly as exclusive with salvation as you are.
God is not as exclusive as you are.
I am very grateful that God is not like you.
Spurgeon spent hours upon hours pleading for men to come in and you spend hours upon hours trying to keep men out. It’s a shameful way for a person who claims to be a Christian to speak and act. Is God keeping anyone out of heaven? Yes. Let Him be the Judge. You should mind the business that you were given and go out and compel them to come in. At the very least you are as guilty as the Pharisees.
Matthew 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
You don’t preach gospel, you preach exclusivity.
The Spirit gives a new heart, enabling a person to repent and believe
Hello Ben, I quoted from a person who saw these truths in scripture before you or I were born. I enjoy and read Spurgeon quite a bit. Spurgeon agreed with what I have posted, so either you misread Spurgeon, or you are missing something. Is there something specific you did not agree with, maybe I can help you see where you have gone off track? Spurgeon was a full 5 pointer as you might not realize that. Your ideas that calvinists do not urge men to repent and believe the scriptures are not solidly based at all, in fact they are way off.
Then Gods perfect will is not being accomplished.
Being you enjoy Spurgeon; here is part of an intro to2 Thess2:13,14:
Now, first. I shall speak a little concerning the truthfulness of thisdoctrine—“God has from the beginning chosen you to salvation.”
Secondly, I shall try to prove that this election is absolute—“He has from the beginning chosen you to salvation,” not for sanctification,
but “through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.”
Thirdly, this election is eternal because the text says, “God has from the beginning chosen you.”
Fourthly, it is personal—“He has chosen you.”
Then we will look at the effects of the doctrine—see what it does.
And lastly, as God may enable us, we will try and look at its tendencies
and see whether it is indeed a terrible and licentious doctrine.
It is no novelty, then, that I am preaching no new doctrine. I love to proclaim these strong old doctrines which are called by nickname Calvinism but which are surely and verily the revealed Truth of God as it is in Christ Jesus.
“False Christs and false prophets shall rise and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.” “Then shall He send His angels and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost parts of the earth to the uttermost part of Heaven.”— Mark 13:20, 22, 27. “Shall not God avenge His own elect who cry day and night unto Him, though He bear long with them?”— Luke 18:7. Together with many other passages which might be selected, wherein either the word “elect,” or “chosen,” or “foreordained,” or “appointed,” is mentioned—or the phrase “My sheep,” or some similar designation, showing that Christ’s people are distinguished from the rest of mankind
Did not Paul say that, "AFTER you believed you received the Holy Spirit of promise?
Eph. 1:12-13
"That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"
We hear the Gospel being convicted of our sins, and we make the choice to believe and accept Christ or not.
Hello Charlie. Do you know that in eph 1 :3-14 is one whole sentence in the greek. Start at verse 3 and discover why people believe and see that it is the work of God before the world was, that enables such a belief. It does not start at verse 13 and go backwards, as you would have us do...ignore the first half of the sentence? No...we should rejoice and enjoy all of God's blessing to us.
A believer does have to believe, Yes, agreed. But they never will believe unless God gives them a new heart. Have you ever seen this verse;
Ezk.36:
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Notice Charlie, it indicates, God gives the new heart, and it says God causes the person to believe [ keep His commands}
Seeing this verse, does it help you to understand?