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Not saved if you don't understand the Bible?
- Thread starter Mapipe
- Start date
raying:In response to Ed's Question:
Jhn 5:24 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Albeit, it says confess and not hear, but you can not confess unless you have heard,
Pretty plain in just these two verses.
(1)Hear, (2)believe, (3)live.
We find it's reverse order in Romans as well...
Rom 10:14 ¶ How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Same format, and sound congruent to me. :thumbs: :smilewinkgrin:
"What must I do to be saved?"
Jhn 5:24 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Albeit, it says confess and not hear, but you can not confess unless you have heard,
Pretty plain in just these two verses.
(1)Hear, (2)believe, (3)live.
We find it's reverse order in Romans as well...
Rom 10:14 ¶ How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Same format, and sound congruent to me. :thumbs: :smilewinkgrin:
Plain Old Bill
New Member
ESV Acts 16:31 Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved,you and your household.
I suggest the written Word of God is what has settled it, as a couple have stated, by more or less quoting Acts 16:31. And since Acts 16:31 is given as a direct answer to the question, that I likewise gave as a quote, then that is what I believe, as well.
Allen's comment of "(1)Hear, (2)believe, (3)live." give rise to another question. (Actually a question and a different comment.)
Would one agree that it is necessary for one to physically 'hear', verbally? I'd say "No!" to this, although that is probably the most usual way for one to become aware of this message. Would 'reading' a sermon or a testimony be equivalent in this to 'hearing' one? Just wonderin'.
The second thing is the comment, as I am going to comment on " (3)live."
My question/comment is do we really know the 'First of the Story' as well as we know the 'Rest of the Story'? Do we really notice that Jesus did NOT promise or say that this would get one "eternal life", rather "this do and thou shalt live" (KJV). The lawyer was also asking what to "do to inherit eternal life", also missing the point that it was/is a gift (and not something that is earned) as stated in John 5:24, which Allan quoted. "The Law" does not, to my knowledge, have any promise of "eternal life" contained in it in any way, although it does contain plenty of 'curses' including (physical) death for not keeping many of the precepts. And I believe Scripture speaks on what 'The Law" was for and could and could not do, many times, including that it could not give life. (Galatians 3)
Lastly I would note that the lawyer was really not 'wanting to know' but interested in two things - (a.) 'testing Jesus' (Lk. 10:25). and (b.) "wanting to justify himself", or as the YLT phrases it, " willing to declare himself righteous" (Lk. 10:29).
A common affliction, NO?? :laugh:
Ed
Allen's comment of "(1)Hear, (2)believe, (3)live." give rise to another question. (Actually a question and a different comment.)
Would one agree that it is necessary for one to physically 'hear', verbally? I'd say "No!" to this, although that is probably the most usual way for one to become aware of this message. Would 'reading' a sermon or a testimony be equivalent in this to 'hearing' one? Just wonderin'.
The second thing is the comment, as I am going to comment on " (3)live."
And as Jesus gave the account of 'The Good Samaritan', here, I would guess that most of us know "The Rest of the Story", fairly well.25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”
27 So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’[a] and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’”[b]
28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”
29 But he, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” (Lk. 10:25-29 - NKJV, my emphasis )
My question/comment is do we really know the 'First of the Story' as well as we know the 'Rest of the Story'? Do we really notice that Jesus did NOT promise or say that this would get one "eternal life", rather "this do and thou shalt live" (KJV). The lawyer was also asking what to "do to inherit eternal life", also missing the point that it was/is a gift (and not something that is earned) as stated in John 5:24, which Allan quoted. "The Law" does not, to my knowledge, have any promise of "eternal life" contained in it in any way, although it does contain plenty of 'curses' including (physical) death for not keeping many of the precepts. And I believe Scripture speaks on what 'The Law" was for and could and could not do, many times, including that it could not give life. (Galatians 3)
Lastly I would note that the lawyer was really not 'wanting to know' but interested in two things - (a.) 'testing Jesus' (Lk. 10:25). and (b.) "wanting to justify himself", or as the YLT phrases it, " willing to declare himself righteous" (Lk. 10:29).
A common affliction, NO?? :laugh:
Ed
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What do you presume was used to settle it, me? Two people posted scriptures from "the Word of God" stating what IT states is needed to be saved.I suggest the written Word of God is what has settled it
Oh brother, and just for good measure...give me a break! I have worked with the deaf and they will tell you if you speak to them that they hear you. Are they lieing? No. hearing is not just auditory but reception via any means that information that can be assimilated and recommunicated and thereby proving the initial information was recieved. So in answer to you question, yes.Would one agree that it is necessary for one to physically 'hear', verbally? I'd say "No!" to this, although that is probably the most usual way for one to become aware of this message. Would 'reading' a sermon or a testimony be equivalent in this to 'hearing' one? Just wonderin'.
First the very notion of understanding the "Rest of the Story" without first understand the "First of the Story" is fallacious at best and insane at worst. You can not come to a proper understanding and cohesive constuct for the end unless you grasp at the first what the beginning entails.My question/comment is do we really know the 'First of the Story' as well as we know the 'Rest of the Story'? Do we really notice that Jesus did NOT promise or say that this would get one "eternal life", rather "this do and thou shalt live" (KJV). The lawyer was also asking what to "do to inherit eternal life", also missing the point that it was/is a gift (and not something that is earned) as stated in John 5:24, which Allan quoted. "The Law" does not, to my knowledge, have any promise of "eternal life" contained in it in any way, although it does contain plenty of 'curses' including (physical) death for not keeping many of the precepts. And I believe Scripture speaks on what 'The Law" was for and could and could not do, many times, including that it could not give life. (Galatians 3)
And yes eternal life is found within the law. Read further to understand what I mean.
Second, the question posed by the Lawyer was; What must I do to INHERIT (not get or obtain) eternal life?
Jesus told him to do just what God told the Jews to do and that was follow the law without offence from birth to death and eternal life is yours. Otherwise Jesus gave one of the stupidest answers to the question about how to obtain it. Note: If one could follow the law without fault he will have attained for and by himself eternal life.
Now stay with me here, cause I don't want to loose anyone with this. The question was about eternal life and Jesus responds "...you will have life." Jesus held the two as synonymous because He was answering the lawyers question. Then the lawyer wanting to justify himself - make an arguement for WHY he asked such a simple question - (in otherwords, preparing for the clincher) and then after His story about the Good Samaritan, Jesus turned around and asked the Lawyer the same question, the answer was obvious "the one who had mercy" and thereby in his own admission (per Jesus question) proved the sin of the lawyer who thought himself worthy of eternal life.
Lastly I would note that the lawyer was really not 'wanting to know' but interested in two things - (a.) 'testing Jesus' (Lk. 10:25). and (b.) "wanting to justify himself", or as the YLT phrases it, " willing to declare himself righteous" (Lk. 10:29).
I agree here, as the point of justify can without harm to the intended context be as the YLT put it, "...willing to declare himself righteous"
Salvation is life here, and synonymous with life eternal - after death. It is a constant and consistant state within Christ Jesus.
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Ask your Sunday School teacher why Jesus' disciples did not always understand Him.Mapipe said:Our Sunday School teacher said this past Sunday that if you are reading the Bible and don't understand it, then you are probably not saved because you dont have the Holy Spirit which enables you to understand. I would agree with her on understanding salvation, but the whole Bible?
Ask Your Sunday Schol teacher to explain 1 Peter 3:14-16, "Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction."
1 Cor. 8:2-3, "If anyone supposes that he knows anything, he has not yet known as he ought to know; but if anyone loves God, he is known by Him."
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Mapipe said:Our Sunday School teacher said this past Sunday that if you are reading the Bible and don't understand it, then you are probably not saved because you dont have the Holy Spirit which enables you to understand. I would agree with her on understanding salvation, but the whole Bible? If that is the case, why do pastors have all those commentaries and references?
I believe we can all understand salvation as well. But then we are born again and we are babies. Feed em too much too fast and you know what happens.
Peter 2:2
As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
1 Corinthians 3:2
I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
Hebrews 5:13
For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Sometimes we just don't remember that it is a growth process and we get far too ahead of ourselves.
Hebrews 5:12
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
2BHizown said:Yes, spoken to believers.
You do not think there was ever one non-believer listening?