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Not under Law --Under Grace!
- Thread starter Claudia_T
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ccrobinson
Active Member
Congratulations on being sinless and perfect, SFIC.
Oh, btw, at 4:09pm today, you posted this in another thread.
Now that you have posted on this board after stating that you wouldn't, I'm trying to figure out these new posts. Obviously, it can't mean that you lied, because you are sinless and perfect.
Oh, btw, at 4:09pm today, you posted this in another thread.
Now that you have posted on this board after stating that you wouldn't, I'm trying to figure out these new posts. Obviously, it can't mean that you lied, because you are sinless and perfect.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Claudia,
Do you see how we are persecuted for Christ's sake. I must remind myself of Jesus' words in his Sermon on the Mount how when people persecute me falsely I am blessed.
.
I am here talking with those who are not my accusers and the accuser comes in.
Oh well...
Yes, and all who will live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.
Thank you Lord for the persecution, for that shows me I am doing something for you.
Do you see how we are persecuted for Christ's sake. I must remind myself of Jesus' words in his Sermon on the Mount how when people persecute me falsely I am blessed.
.
I am here talking with those who are not my accusers and the accuser comes in.
Oh well...
Yes, and all who will live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.
Thank you Lord for the persecution, for that shows me I am doing something for you.
Standing,
Yes I see that. It is par for the course so to speak. You havent done anything but tell your views on this subject just as everybody else has.
1Jn:3:12: Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
Claudia
Yes I see that. It is par for the course so to speak. You havent done anything but tell your views on this subject just as everybody else has.
1Jn:3:12: Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
Claudia
standingfirminChrist
New Member
I have said I will not address my accusers anymore and they twist my words to say I would not post any more on the board. Just as the accuser twisted God's Word' in the garden, 'ye shall not surely die..', the accuser twists my word today.
I should again thank Jesus for giving me the wisdom to know that satan is the accuser of the brethren.
I should again thank Jesus for giving me the wisdom to know that satan is the accuser of the brethren.
same
Standing Firm,
If by "gives in to temptation" you mean sinning, then it means that when you and I sin (as we all do) it proves we are human and have not reached perfection yet.
"Faithful unto death" means that we will be Christs ambassadors and have a heart that is inclined towards the things of God and rightiousness until the moment we die.
If by "gives in to temptation" you mean denying Christ, then it would probably mean that one was never really born again.
God bless,
Mike
Standing Firm,
If by "gives in to temptation" you mean sinning, then it means that when you and I sin (as we all do) it proves we are human and have not reached perfection yet.
"Faithful unto death" means that we will be Christs ambassadors and have a heart that is inclined towards the things of God and rightiousness until the moment we die.
If by "gives in to temptation" you mean denying Christ, then it would probably mean that one was never really born again.
God bless,
Mike
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Amen! My point exactly!D28guy said:
One who turns from Christ to sin just before death has rejected Christ. He has turned to do the lusts of their true father. and rejected Christ at the time of death. He was not a faithful ambassador.
The child of God will sin from time to time, but not willfully. He gives in to the flesh, but that Spirit that resides in him would keep him from sinning. John wrote:
That which is born of God cannot sin.
I believe that speaks of willfull sin. How can I make such a claim? Paul confirmed this to be truth when he wrote
The evil that I would not, that I do. Paul did not want to sin, but found himself sinning. Why? Because the flesh wars against the Spirit. This is why Paul said he had to keep his body under subjection daily.
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same
Standing Firm,
But that does not mean in any way that we are still under the Law, or that our rightstadning before God will be determined by our keeping of the Law.
All of that can not be true because the scriptures are crystal clear that we have been....
Freed from the bondage of the Law.
Freed from performance based acceptance with God.
Delivered from the Law and into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
In the context of the new covenant, the placing of the Law into His childrens hearts means that we are inclined towards a love beased relationship with God through Christ, we have a heart inclined towards pleasing Him and being His representives here on earth, and we desire to live the Spirit filled life through His indwelling and empowering.
This will result in a lifestyle that will be consistent with the kind of lifestyle spoken of in the Law, but we are in no way "under" the Law.
Nobody wants to do away with Gods Laws. But the Law must be applied in the context of the new covenant, and the prescribed new covenant view of the Law and how it does and does not apply to us.
Grace and peace,
Mike
Standing Firm,
But that does not mean in any way that we are still under the Law, or that our rightstadning before God will be determined by our keeping of the Law.
All of that can not be true because the scriptures are crystal clear that we have been....
Freed from the bondage of the Law.
Freed from performance based acceptance with God.
Delivered from the Law and into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
In the context of the new covenant, the placing of the Law into His childrens hearts means that we are inclined towards a love beased relationship with God through Christ, we have a heart inclined towards pleasing Him and being His representives here on earth, and we desire to live the Spirit filled life through His indwelling and empowering.
This will result in a lifestyle that will be consistent with the kind of lifestyle spoken of in the Law, but we are in no way "under" the Law.
Nobody wants to do away with Gods Laws. But the Law must be applied in the context of the new covenant, and the prescribed new covenant view of the Law and how it does and does not apply to us.
Grace and peace,
Mike
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Every person comes to Christ as a sinner who does not "deserve" salvation. We come to Christ lost seeking salvation "apart from works".
But once we are SAVED - our works SHOW that the tree is NEW is GOOD and is producing good fruit - the heart is submitted to Christ and the commandments of Christ "IF you Love Me -- THEN Keep My Commandments" John 14:15.
Those pre-cross words of Christ CONTINUE for us today post-cross -- applicable to every child of God today just as they were when Christ spoke them.
But once we are SAVED - our works SHOW that the tree is NEW is GOOD and is producing good fruit - the heart is submitted to Christ and the commandments of Christ "IF you Love Me -- THEN Keep My Commandments" John 14:15.
Those pre-cross words of Christ CONTINUE for us today post-cross -- applicable to every child of God today just as they were when Christ spoke them.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
D28, (or can I call ya Mike?),
I believe if we follow the laws that Jesus gave in the Gospel:
1. Love the Lord thy God...
and
2. Love thy neighbor as thyself
It must be possible to keep the Ten Commandments.
else Jesus Himself would not have told the man to keep the commandments and he would have life.
If one loves the Lord with all his heart, mind, soul and strength, he will not break the first 4 commandments. (they are focused on God.
If one loves his neighbor as himself (no man yet hateth his own flesh), he will not break the last 6 commandments. They are focused on mankind.
I believe if we follow the laws that Jesus gave in the Gospel:
1. Love the Lord thy God...
and
2. Love thy neighbor as thyself
It must be possible to keep the Ten Commandments.
else Jesus Himself would not have told the man to keep the commandments and he would have life.
If one loves the Lord with all his heart, mind, soul and strength, he will not break the first 4 commandments. (they are focused on God.
If one loves his neighbor as himself (no man yet hateth his own flesh), he will not break the last 6 commandments. They are focused on mankind.
same
Standing Firm,
Of course you can, brother. You and I have posted to each other many times. I used to post a whole lot several months ago, but that computer self destructed. I've just now got around around to getting a new one.
Its certainly possible to want to, and its certainly possible to live in such a way that is consistant with the attitudes and behavior described in the law.
But we will never keep it perfectly. Its utterly impossible to. Its too stringent for us. It was designed to be too stringent for us...in order to thoroughly condemn each and every one of us...and then cause us, in our hopelesness, to flee to Christ.
And when Jesus encountered people who were so decieved as to actually think they were keeping it, He proceeded to speak of looking at a woman with lust making one guilty of adultery, and inordinant anger making one guilty of murder.
(and He wasnt kidding...He meant it!)
Jesus had to get people to see their utter hopelessness, through the law, so that He could draw them to Himself for salvation through faith. Then He could free them from the Law, because "the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life". One of the laws primary purposes is to CONDEMN us...and to drive us to Christ.
But under the new covenant that does not mean that we turn to being "lawkeepers" for our salvation, or our rightstanding before God.
We are to walk "in the newness of the Spirit", and not the "oldness of the letter" (under the Law)
We ought not walk with a mindset of not breaking the commandmants, because that very mindset causes the commandments to become even more burdensome. The new covenant way is to walk in the goodness of the Holy Spirits indweling and empowering. When we walk in the newness of the Spirit, rather then the oldness of the letter (the Law), we will supernaturally live in a way that is consistent with the law....without being under it.
"But that no one is justified by the Law in the sight of God is evident, for the just shall live by faith. Yet the law is not of faith, but the man who does them shall live by them. Christ has redemed us from the curse of the Law"
"Stand fast therefore in the liberty with which God has set us free, and do not be entangled again in the yoke of bondage."
"For as many as are under the works of the Law are under a curse."
But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the Law, kept for the faith that would afterword be revealed, Therefore the Law was our tutor, to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under the tutor"
God bless,
Mike
Standing Firm,
Of course you can, brother. You and I have posted to each other many times. I used to post a whole lot several months ago, but that computer self destructed. I've just now got around around to getting a new one.
Its certainly possible to want to, and its certainly possible to live in such a way that is consistant with the attitudes and behavior described in the law.
But we will never keep it perfectly. Its utterly impossible to. Its too stringent for us. It was designed to be too stringent for us...in order to thoroughly condemn each and every one of us...and then cause us, in our hopelesness, to flee to Christ.
And when Jesus encountered people who were so decieved as to actually think they were keeping it, He proceeded to speak of looking at a woman with lust making one guilty of adultery, and inordinant anger making one guilty of murder.
(and He wasnt kidding...He meant it!)
Jesus had to get people to see their utter hopelessness, through the law, so that He could draw them to Himself for salvation through faith. Then He could free them from the Law, because "the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life". One of the laws primary purposes is to CONDEMN us...and to drive us to Christ.
But under the new covenant that does not mean that we turn to being "lawkeepers" for our salvation, or our rightstanding before God.
We are to walk "in the newness of the Spirit", and not the "oldness of the letter" (under the Law)
We ought not walk with a mindset of not breaking the commandmants, because that very mindset causes the commandments to become even more burdensome. The new covenant way is to walk in the goodness of the Holy Spirits indweling and empowering. When we walk in the newness of the Spirit, rather then the oldness of the letter (the Law), we will supernaturally live in a way that is consistent with the law....without being under it.
"But that no one is justified by the Law in the sight of God is evident, for the just shall live by faith. Yet the law is not of faith, but the man who does them shall live by them. Christ has redemed us from the curse of the Law"
"Stand fast therefore in the liberty with which God has set us free, and do not be entangled again in the yoke of bondage."
"For as many as are under the works of the Law are under a curse."
But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the Law, kept for the faith that would afterword be revealed, Therefore the Law was our tutor, to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under the tutor"
God bless,
Mike
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Brother Mike,
Sorry yer PC crashed. but joyed that ya got anotehr one. Hope it works better than the last one.
I built 2 pc's today (which is a feat for a blind man.)
Actually, it is not really a feat, as cards can only go in certain slots, memory only goes in one direction, etc..
Every thing is pretty much a piece of cake. I have someone telll me where the leads from front of pc go, (this is reset switch... it goes on 4th and 5th posts beginning from back... etc., I used to build them before going blind, so much is like second nature.
My pastor's bought the parts for a new pc and brought them for me to build, and my wife's pc crashed last week,so i ordered her the parts to build a new one. Both came today, so I was extrememy busy much of the day.
I think we see pretty much eye to eye on things concerning this subject, there are some differences, but at least we ain't fighting.
I reckon mybiggest issue is the fact that God knows us from the begginning to the end far before the end arrives. He knows our hearts and what our choices will be in life. I just feel taht the one who turns from trusting Christ to bring him through issues to a gun or a rope or other means. The last act is not faith toward God unto good works and certainly not a work of righteousness.
I always have looked at it as the tree showing what manner of tree it is. Ya know, a tree only bears it's fruit in certain seasons, so many times the true nature of the tree is not known until it begins bearing the fruit.
Also, I see the righteous as the tree in Psalm 1 that is planted,and whatsoever he does prospers.
Just a thought.
Ps, ya can call me Ron if ya wish
Sorry yer PC crashed. but joyed that ya got anotehr one. Hope it works better than the last one.
I built 2 pc's today (which is a feat for a blind man.)
Actually, it is not really a feat, as cards can only go in certain slots, memory only goes in one direction, etc..
Every thing is pretty much a piece of cake. I have someone telll me where the leads from front of pc go, (this is reset switch... it goes on 4th and 5th posts beginning from back... etc., I used to build them before going blind, so much is like second nature.
My pastor's bought the parts for a new pc and brought them for me to build, and my wife's pc crashed last week,so i ordered her the parts to build a new one. Both came today, so I was extrememy busy much of the day.
I think we see pretty much eye to eye on things concerning this subject, there are some differences, but at least we ain't fighting.
I reckon mybiggest issue is the fact that God knows us from the begginning to the end far before the end arrives. He knows our hearts and what our choices will be in life. I just feel taht the one who turns from trusting Christ to bring him through issues to a gun or a rope or other means. The last act is not faith toward God unto good works and certainly not a work of righteousness.
I always have looked at it as the tree showing what manner of tree it is. Ya know, a tree only bears it's fruit in certain seasons, so many times the true nature of the tree is not known until it begins bearing the fruit.
Also, I see the righteous as the tree in Psalm 1 that is planted,and whatsoever he does prospers.
Just a thought.
Ps, ya can call me Ron if ya wish
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Off to bed, it is 117 am here and I have been up since 8am yesterday.
The Lord giveth His beloved sleep
g'nite
The Lord giveth His beloved sleep
g'nite
ccrobinson
Active Member
Why would I need to twist your words? Your words speak for themselves just as they are.
Here are your own words.
Where's the twisting? You are to be congratulated for being sinless and perfect. You and Jesus Christ are the only people I know who were sinless and perfect. That's an amazing accomplishment.
You also wrote:
Sounds to me like you were done with the board. Since you posted in this thread after saying you weren't going to address anybody anymore, what conclusion should I be drawing?
Do you think that I've twisted words because I actually have? Or, do you think that I've twisted words because it feeds your martyr complex?
Please show me where I have twisted your words. And, while you're at it, you can apologize for your false accusations.
ccrobinson said:
ccrobinson,
Can you please tell the Board what these Bible verse means to you?
Heb:10:
26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27: But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28: He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
To reiterate,
StandingfirminChrist said:
Quote:
I do not believe that the true child of God will willfully commit sin.
If you are unable to explain these Bible verses adequately, and convince us that they somehow do not apply to any of us, then it would probably be courteous of you to refrain from mocking StandingfirminChrist. I have not read everything that he said that he believes, and so I cannot comment on that, but on this particular point, he is endeavoring to stand by what the Word of God says, and he ought to be commended for it.
As far as I can see, you have only two options:
1) To be a true child of God who does not wilfully commit sin
2) To be someone who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing
If you see a third option, please let us know.
Thank you in advance,
Claudia
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Diggin in da Word
New Member
ccrobinson said:
cc,
Why are you set on tearing one down so? sfiC did not lie. He has quoted scripture to show the true child of God cannot sin. That is evident from Paul's writings to Rome when he said that which he would not do he found himself doing.
sfiC did not lie. He never said he did not sin. As a matter of fact, you seem to pick and choose what you want to hear from sfiC. You want to prove him wrong, so you take his quotes and twist them to your liking.
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Diggin in da Word
New Member
Must've been a hit and run just like last night.
ccrobinson
Active Member
Sorry I wasn't able to meet your expectations on replying so quickly. 
I see somebody who says that Christians don't sin and that if they do, they're not saved, who believes they ought to be judging everybody else's salvation, and then wants to be a martyr about it when called on it.
Evidently, I've come across too strong on this thread. Thus, I will bow out of the thread and allow you all to have the last word.
I see somebody who says that Christians don't sin and that if they do, they're not saved, who believes they ought to be judging everybody else's salvation, and then wants to be a martyr about it when called on it.
Evidently, I've come across too strong on this thread. Thus, I will bow out of the thread and allow you all to have the last word.
Why are you set on tearing one down so? sfiC did not lie. He has quoted scripture to show the true child of God cannot sin. That is evident from Paul's writings(it is?) to Rome when he said that which he would not do he found himself doing.
sfiC did not lie. He never said he did not sin. By some nut
If standing said what you said he said....oh man! I'm getting as confused as you SDA"s, than by his own admission he's not saved? Right.
sfiC did not lie. He never said he did not sin. By some nut
If standing said what you said he said....oh man! I'm getting as confused as you SDA"s, than by his own admission he's not saved? Right.
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