Nouthetic Counseling in Baptist Schools

nouthetic?

 

"Another thread got me wondering...

What Baptist colleges and seminaries currently teach nouthetic counseling?

I know there is a heavy Presbyterian influence here (Westminster in PA and CA). Master's College and Seminary are also influential (John MacArthur, Wayne Mack- although Mack has left)."


A comment about nouthetic counseling....just because a presbyterian may have popularized it, does not make it a problem for Baptists. I believe it is the most biblical method of counseling today, making the Bible our supreme authority in helping people solve problems.

God does have the answer to our needs and problems. Praise the Lord!

 

Here at SEBTS they offer NANC Certificate training several times per year. I'm not real sure about how it works because I'm not in a Counseling Degree program. However, I know that they held three or four weekend courses during the fall and winter last year. Likewise, I know that our Counseling Degree programs teach biblical counseling only. They don't do the "scientific" model based on evolutionary theory thing.

 

Thanks, Bible-boy, I should have mentioned that SEBTS is nouthetic or very close to it. The NANC training will be in Greensboro this year, however, rather than actually on the SEBTS campus. Tracks 1 and 3 will be offered this fall.

 

Calvary Baptist Theological Seminary in PA also 'teaches' the nouthetic/biblical model of counseling. I was there in the 90's; quite a bit of influence from nearby Westminster Seminary.

 

I believe Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary has a MABC that is nouthetic as well.

 

Biblical truth is truth regardless of who says it. As many Baptists follow nouthetic approaches as do Presbyterians. Jay Adams associates with many Baptists such as Dutton, Smith, Patton, et. al. Faith Baptist in IN is big in NANC.

 

I have no real problem with most nouthetic counseling just as I have no problem with most modern psychology.

But problems arise when the two begin to assume the role of the other.

Many whom I have talked to who support nouthetic counseling and dislike all modern psychology have only read a few Adams books. They hear Bible-only and believe that this way must be the best.

I am sorry but the Bible was never intended to be a counseling handbook anymore than it was intended to be a science book.

The Scriptures can be used to heal the soul and cure sin if one has faith in Christ.

But what about those who don't have faith? Or what about those who have a chemical imbalance? What about those with genetic problems? What about those with a behavioral problems? What about those with suffering from abuse?

There are three problems with much modern nouthetic counseling.

1) Many advocates have an incorrect view of the makeup of man.
2) Many advocates have an incorrect view of what psyschology involves.
3) Many advocates have an incorrect view of the purpose of the Scriptures.

If we continue in our inaccurate views about nouthetic counseling, we will become some new form Christian Scientists.

I hope these problems are just symptomatic of the diletantes of counseling and not the whole field of nouthetic counselors.

 

Would you care to give an explanation for each of these? Perhaps a separate thread for each one would be great. I think these might make for an interesting discussion.

 

I am new to Baptist Board. How does one start a separate thread?

 

2 Timothy 3:16
While it is true that nouthetic counselors generally may not prescribe drugs, it is not true that the scripture is not able to address problems of behavior and abuse. God's Word is the final authority whether one is a believer or not. Anyting that deviates is strictly the opinion of man and as such is highly susceptible to error.

 

For these, the Bible has the answer.

Nouthetic counseling recommends that the first homework assignment for a counselee is a complete medical workup to rule out chemical imbalances.

What is the behavior or attitude that is affected by this? That determines how it is handled.

Behavioral problems are a lack of self-control, which is a fruit of the Spirit. The answer to this is always biblical.

The answer to this is found in Scripture as well, aligning one's view of life with the truth of God.

Very often, people underestimate the value of the Bible because of the line that "the Bible is not a counseling manual." That is a very limited view of the Bible.

 

But we are not speaking of opinions that deviate from Scripture. We are speaking of opinions that are not mentioned in Scripture and, therefore, are up for for grabs.

Some, perhaps, most behavior and much abuse can be and should be dealt with by nouthetic counseling. Very few believers would deny that truth. The issue is whether or not all problems that fall under the secular umbrella of psychology can be dealt with by nouthetic counseling or whether some problems must be dealt with using modern methods.

Not all problems that that physicians face are physical and not all problems that psychologists face are mental. It's not as clean cut as that. The human self is not as clean as that. Our minds are both spiritual and physical. The Bible speaks to both aspects of man (all of the spiritual issues) but not to all of the physical issues.

Yes, I suppose if we all had perfected faith then both the physical and spiritual aspects of our minds could be healed. If we have faith we can be healed of physical ailments, so says the Scriptures. Does that mean that we should cease seeing physicians and start forming nouthetic hospitals to cure the flu?

God gave us the abilities to prevent the flu. He gave us the abilities to help those suffering from mental problems. Let's not cause a whole lot of people to suffer because of another spiritual fad.

 

But what about those who don't have faith?
"For these, the Bible has the answer."

Yes, but what if they disbelieve the Bible. Do we refuse to help them when other methods work they will accept work.

Which brings up another point ... Do modern methods of psychology work?

Or what about those who have a chemical imbalance?
"Nouthetic counseling recommends that the first homework assignment for a counselee is a complete medical workup to rule out chemical imbalances."

Good.

What about those with genetic problems?
"What is the behavior or attitude that is affected by this? That determines how it is handled."

Autism, mood disorders, personality disoders, schizophrenia, etc.

What about those with a behavioral problems?
"Behavioral problems are a lack of self-control, which is a fruit of the Spirit. The answer to this is always biblical."

Autism, attention deficit, schizophrenia, sleep disorders, Tourette's syndrome, dissociative identity disorder (MPD), amnesia, "stuttering", etc.

Yes, the person cannot control his self. In many cases the fact that he cannot control his self is not because he hasn't the fruit of the spirit but because we live in a fallen world and bad things happen to good people.

"The answer to this is found in Scripture as well, aligning one's view of life with the truth of God. Very often, people underestimate the value of the Bible because of the line that 'the Bible is not a counseling manual.' That is a very limited view of the Bible."

Alligning one's view of life will not make all bad things go away. It will not always cure cancer or heart disease or cure autism and MPD. The Bible will teach one about Christ and how to have a relationship with Him. In this trusting relationship one finds peace inspite of the sufferings whether physical or psychological or spiriutal.

I don't think I have "limited view of the Bible" but I do beleive I have a accurate view. I have seen books on how to use the Bible to get wealthy, to get healthy, and to predict the future. The Bible Codes, anyone? Today, I see books about the Scriptural view of diets. And don't even get me started on science and how God created creation as reflected in the Scriptures.

I am sure those who dabble in Old Testament diets think they have a high view of the Scripture too.

I think we do damage to the witness of the Scriptures when we start applying it to thigns it was never meant to be applied. We then distract from what it was intended to do.

 

Such as?

Actually, physicians refer patients with problems that they believe are mental.

I absolutely agree. The spiritual fad that should be rejected is integrationism ... the minimization of the Bible to the mere level of human psychology. The Bible has a much higher position than that. We should not cause people to suffer by offering solutions that don't really work in the long run.

 

I guess that depends on what you mean by "work." Do you want real solutions or not?

Autism is not a problem treatable by counseling. The other things you mention all have biblical solutions, if we will pursue them.

Some of these are not really behavioral problems per se. You are mixing some things up here. We need to make valid distinctions between behavioral disorders such as ADD or ADHD (which is dealt with by the biblical discpline of self-control) and things such as sleep disorders (which can stem from a number of issues including an unbiblical approach to worry and stress), amnesia (which has nothing to do with behavioral issues), etc. Some of these are genuine medical issues and some are not.

There are no good people. One of hte problems of modern pscyhology is the misdiagnosis that there are good people. All are sinners and we live in a sin cursed world. All of these problems stem from that to be sure. But a lack of self-control is always a lack of the fruit of the Spirit. That is the root cause.

Having a proper view of God and life will not make the bad things go away, but it will enable the individual to deal with those bad things in a biblical way. Your last statement sums up the issue that you have seeminly argued against. When you know Christ and understand him, there are answers to these problems. It doesn't cure medical issues to be sure; no one should claim that it does. But it does deal with the spiritual side of man, which is where most counseling problems come from.

Some of these types of books are misuses of hte Bible. But with respect to the last part, much of the problem in modern psychology comes from teh denial that man was the special creation of God in his own image.

I completely believe this and that was my point to begin with. When we lower its value to a mere commentary on history, rather than that which equips us for every good work, then we have lost its value.