Numbers 20:10........

[ROSAMARIA FABRIZIO]

:smilewinkgrin: Hi.........Please help me here.....Some one (christian) said, and I quote: "Moses did a very heinous thing, he blasphemed the holy ghost by taking credit for something GOD was doing." Numbers 20:10; And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock?..........Well, is it known that this is true of Moses?? (blasphemed the holy ghost)...........And if it is true how is it known..........I understand of disobedience............need help.......always thank you for your help:thumbs: ......................:smilewinkgrin: .......rosamaria

 

[preachinjesus]

All of your posts seem to follow the same pattern...I beg your allowance to ask a serious question...are you seriously looking for answers or just trying to mount a case against Christianity?

 

[ROSAMARIA FABRIZIO]

That is not true..........

All of your posts seem to follow the same pattern...I beg your allowance to ask a serious question...are you seriously looking for answers or just trying to mount a case against Christianity?

:wavey: Hi, preachinjesus......These are some questions from others that I just need help on.....Has nothing to do with being against christianiy......(No)...........About knowledge of the Word of God to be understood correctly.... Please understand........... Thank you .......still need help on question..:smilewinkgrin: ....rosamaria................:godisgood:

 

[Bible-boy]

Hello Rosemaria,

According to your profile your are not a Baptist. You have posted this thread in a Baptist Only section of the Baptist Board. I am moving it to the section of the BB that is open to all Christians. In the future please do not post in the Baptist Only section of the BB.

 

[Bible-boy]

Does the text of the Bible where that story occurs specifically say that Moses blasphemed the Holy Spirit?

 

[Eliyahu]

Rosamaria asked a very good question on the subjects which many people do not know or misunderstand, but is very important because the issue is related to our Lord Jesus Christ.

Israelites had the water problem in the wilderness 3 times, and all three incidents are related to Jesus Christ. Moses and Aaron could not enter Land of Canaan because of this event.

I have my own interpretation, but would wait until the other posters explain them first.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Let's hear it, please.

 

[Eliyahu]

I would not tell my interpretation until everyone can tell his or her own. Thereafter I will explain my interpretation, then the readers can compare them.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

I do not believe they blasphemed by asking 'Must we bring forth water...?'

God had told them in verse 8 to speak to the rock and 'it shall give forth its water'.

Moses was in obedience with God until he struck the rock, not in his anger at the rebellious people, nor in his question to them.'

 

[webdog]

Why does the "we" have to refer to Aaron and Moses? As God's representative to Israel, he would have been correct in stating "we" if he was referring to God and himself, afterall, he was annointed and filled with the Spirit for God's purpose.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Moses' sin in this incident was failing to depend on God. He thought that merely speaking to the rock, as God had commanded, was not enough. He tried to provide water according to his own works. It certainly can speak of man's feeble attempt to accomplish the things of God in the energy of the flesh.

There is no blasphemy of the Holy Spirit in this incident.

 

[webdog]

I think the blasphemy the OP is referring to has to do with the words "we" spoken by Moses, not the actions.

 

[bmerr]

Rosemaria,

bmerr here. Shortly after the incident in question, Moses and Aaron are reproved by God. I don't have a copy of the Scriptures handy, so you'll have to look for it on your own. Anyway, the main point of God's reproof is that Moses and Aaron did not sanctify or glorify Him before the people.

Moses disobeyed God, but he did not blaspheme the Holy Spirit. To do that he would have to attribute the work of God to Satan, as the Pharisees did in Matt 12:22-32.

In Christ,

bmerr

 

[BobRyan]

:smilewinkgrin: Hi.........Please help me here.....Some one (christian) said, and I quote: "Moses did a very heinous thing, he blasphemed the holy ghost by taking credit for something GOD was doing." Numbers 20:10; And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, YE rebels; must WE fetch you water out of this rock?..........Well, is it known that this is true of Moses?? (blasphemed the holy ghost)...........And if it is true how is it known..........I understand of disobedience............need help.......always thank you for your help:thumbs: ......................:smilewinkgrin: .......rosamaria

Certainly Moses was in error in taking credit to himself for something God did and in striking the rock where God told him merely to SPEAK and the water would flow.

I don't believe the Bible ever calls it blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

I do not believe Moses was taking credit for the miracle himself as BobRyan inferred.

Moses knew God is the one who does the miracles, so he was referring to God's hand in the miracle. His sin was striking the rock. And as Pastor Bob has pointed out, and others, it was not blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

 

[BobRyan]

He and Aaron gathered the assembly together in front of the rock and Moses said to them, "Listen, you rebels, must we bring you water out of this rock?" 11 Then Moses raised his arm and struck the rock twice with his staff. Water gushed out, and the community and their livestock drank.

12 But the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "Because you did not trust in me enough to honor me as holy in the sight of the Israelites,

...

The point seems clear enough.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Apparently it is not clear enough to you, Bob.

They did not give honor to the Lord when they struck the rock. They were to speak to it, not strike it.

Numbers 20:7 (KJV) And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Numbers 20:8 (KJV) Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink.
Numbers 20:9 (KJV) And Moses took the rod from before the LORD, as he commanded him.
Numbers 20:10 (KJV) And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock?

God did not tell them to say anything except to speak to the rock. He did not tell them to say 'Thus saith the Lord of Hosts...'. He just said, 'Speak To The Rock.' Nothing more, nothing less.

Their dishonor was not in their words, but in their action... striking the rock.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Moses' sin in this incident was failing to depend on God. He thought that merely speaking to the rock, as God had commanded, was not enough. He tried to provide water according to his own works. It certainly can speak of man's feeble attempt to accomplish the things of God in the energy of the flesh.

There is no blasphemy of the Holy Spirit in this incident.

GE:

Is there a difference between blasphemy and sin? Is not all sin blaspheming against the Holy? Sin is not sin were it not against, God, and against, every Person of the Godhead, Father, Son, and Spirit. Sin against one is just as sinful as against any. One must also say, sin is not sin because it is against every Person of the Godhead, Father, Son, or, the Holy Spirit. Father, Son and Spirit are equally Holy.

Therefore to single out this one sin of Moses as worse than the sinfulness of Moses during all his life or in his whole being, is unwarranted speculation. Moses was a type of Christ, and this act of his therefore showed forth the sin of everyone of us humans : we all while blaspheming against the Holy Spirit do indeed kill the Son and contemn the Father. What greater can our sins be than our sinfulness?

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

GE:

Is there a difference between blasphemy and sin? Is not all sin blaspheming against the Holy? Sin is not sin were it not against, God, and against, every Person of the Godhead, Father, Son, and Spirit. Sin against one is just as sinful as against any. One must also say, sin is not sin because it is against every Person of the Godhead, Father, Son, or, the Holy Spirit. Father, Son and Spirit are equally Holy.

Therefore to single out this one sin of Moses as worse than the sinfulness of Moses during all his life or in his whole being, is unwarranted speculation. Moses was a type of Christ, and this act of his therefore showed forth the sin of everyone of us humans : we all while blaspheming against the Holy Spirit do indeed kill the Son and contemn the Father. What greater can our sins be than our sinfulness?

Apparently Jesus Christ Himself would disagree with you.

Matthew 12:31 (KJV) Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Matthew 12:32 (KJV) And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.

Quite obvious that Jesus spoke of sin being different than blasphemy.

Also, to speak against the Son (Jesus Christ) shall be forgiven, but speaking against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven. If all sin against the Son were also against the Holy Spirit, then the above verse would be a lie. Jesus said when one sins against Him, it shall be forgiven. Sins against the Son are different than sins against the Holy Spirit.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

HBSMN:

"If all sin against the Son were also against the Holy Spirit, then the above verse would be a lie. Jesus said when one sins against Him, it shall be forgiven. Sins against the Son are different than sins against the Holy Spirit."

GE:

What about the infinite number of Scriptures that say Christ's blood pays for every and all (my) sin?

"No one can say Jesus is Lord but by the Holy Spirit" is the Word of the God who cannot lie. Therefore to "say a word against" the Son is to "say a word against the Holy Spirit" --- "the Spirit of Christ"!

WHAT ABOUT THE WORTH AND POWER OF JESUS' SACRIFICE AND RESURRECTION? Were it less than what it is, I would not be saved, because I have committed every conceivable and inconceivable sin against the Holy Spirit of God. Then Jesus' own words, "Your sins are forgiven", would be meaningless to me and for me, and the faith God had given me, bluff.

What sin you, and I, have committed was not against the Holy Spirit, what word you, and I, have spoken against God that it is not so bad as not to be blaspheming against the Holy Spirit?

If one takes the word for "but" to say something like 'indeed' in this text, it equalises rather than contrasts sin against the Son and sin against the Spirit.

There simply is no such thing as sin that is less than blasphemy -- for which one might be pardoned, but for the other, not. And there is no such thing as sin that is not sinning against the Holy Spirit. The words, "word spoken" mean 'sin committed', or, and, 'blasphemy spoken against'.