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Nuts For Arminians To Crack

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by tyndale1946, Apr 11, 2018.

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  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    This is from a little booklet written by Elder J. B. Hardy 1837 -1913 and this particular one is on free agency... Comments?... Brother Glen:)

    If we are saved by our free will, is it not a fact that the only difference between the saved and the lost is that the saved made a better use of their will?
     
    #1 tyndale1946, Apr 11, 2018
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I'm not an arminian but I do hold to free will and the statement in the op is an over simplification of the situation. IN fact I would deny that that is a fact. The reason I would deny it is the use of the word "only". Someone who believes that to be true either doesn't actually know what others believe about free will or is just being a butt head and intentionally as well as unnecessarily provocative.
     
    #2 Revmitchell, Apr 11, 2018
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  3. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    Who says we are saved by our free will? I didn't know Arminians teach that. Can you quote some that say that?

    Arminians teach we are saved by grace through faith.
     
    #3 glad4mercy, Apr 11, 2018
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  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    What other factors would you include?
     
    #4 JonC, Apr 11, 2018
  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Some people do not take the idea of God seriously, some refuse to live in a way that God would get glory for their life, there are any number of differing reasons why people reject God. I had one young man tell me that even though he believe there is a God he heard and old lady say that God had taken his father, at the funeral when he was 7 years old. He wanted nothing to do with a God who would do that. None of those things have anything to do with making use of one's will. However, even if the op is true for even one single person I am ok with that.
     
    #5 Revmitchell, Apr 11, 2018
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  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I was thinking of things like external influences. Perhaps one person accepts the truth of the gospel while another, given exactly the same opportunity, declines based on deception (like in your example, perhaps that person never gave the opportunity that saved others a chance because he dismissed the notion of trusting God based on ascribing to God an erroneous motive when he was young). This may be a challenge not only with rejecting God, but also on accepting "nominal Christianity" through tradition.
     
    #6 JonC, Apr 11, 2018
  7. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Ok!... Whose grace and whose faith?... Yours?... Remember this is a Calvinist and Arminian Forum and not all agree... Brother Glen:)

    Can man be a free agent and God be a sovereign?

    Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

    9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
     
    #7 tyndale1946, Apr 11, 2018
  8. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    Whose grace? God's

    Whose faith? Faith is a gift of God, but when it is received it becomes my faith and your faith. Jesus never said "God's faith has made you whole". So it is our faith that we receive (through revelation, illumination, and drawing as a gift from God.

    Can a man be a free agent and God Soveriegn? First of all, whether or not man is free is irrelevant to the soveriegnty question ( unless you wrongly define freedom as autonomy)Man's freedom would not threaten or thwart God's Soveriegnty. Now I must be clear

    A. that I do not define freedom as autonomy.

    B. That fallen man is not free, but the reason is not that freedom would usurp God's authority. God's authority is inusurpable.

    C fallen. man is not free because He is a slave to sin.

    D. Fallen man becomes free, when the truth (Jesus) sets him free

    E. But this freedom is not autonomous freedom. It is freedom from sin's to be joined to Christ

    F. God grants believers the freedom to believe and become children of God

    G. God gives unbelievers the freedom to reject salvation, but they are not free, but bound to sin.

    H. RC Sproul, a man I admire said God is free and man is free. But man is not as free as God.

    I. We are free to make choices, but we all (saved and unsaved) choose to serve a master who has dominion over us. Either Christ or sin in the flesh.

    Blessings
     
    #8 glad4mercy, Apr 11, 2018
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  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Of course He can
     
    #9 Revmitchell, Apr 12, 2018
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  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    But we make the decision to accept Jesus based upon full free will....That is the Arminian viewpoint.
     
    #10 Yeshua1, Apr 12, 2018
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  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Is Man capable of having a libertine/full free will?
     
    #11 Yeshua1, Apr 12, 2018
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Can fallen beings, whose very sin nature refuses to acknowledge God over them , suddenly flip the switch and now trust and obey the one they refused to before?
     
    #12 Yeshua1, Apr 12, 2018
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Per Arminians, what makes the real difference why 2 sinners hear same preaching, and yet only one believes in Jesus then?
     
    #13 Yeshua1, Apr 12, 2018
  14. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Free will is free will I am not going to play in all the nuances with you guys. God gave man the ability to choose after having heard the gospel (Romans 1:16). The power to convict is in the gospel alone(Romans 10:17; John 1:12), the power to understand and receive is in man( romans 10:9-10) (because God gave that to him and it is aquired at birth) and the power to become the children of God is man's because God gave that to him as a result of believing (John 1:12).

    Now yall don't like that take it up with God. Your issue is with Him not me.
     
    #14 Revmitchell, Apr 12, 2018
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  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    One may have eaten bad seafood the night before and has greater concerns?

    Perhaps the difference is in the sinners.
     
    #15 JonC, Apr 12, 2018
  16. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Since when does the reaching out and receiving of a gift also constitute partly giving of the gift?
     
    #16 Revmitchell, Apr 12, 2018
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  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Good point. I'll give you that one (if you'll take it). :)
     
    #17 JonC, Apr 12, 2018
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  18. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Did Arminius believe that? His writings don't seem to suggest that.
     
    #18 Reynolds, Apr 12, 2018
  19. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    My earlier post already answered this. The answer is no. No one can come unless the Father draws them. Non Calvinists believe this too.
     
    #19 glad4mercy, Apr 12, 2018
  20. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    I do not believe salvation is merely making a choice to accept Jesus. That is a horrible oversimplification of what Arminians believe.

    SOME people may believe that way, but that is not what the Arminians I've known, heard and read believe. That kind of statement (that salvation is merely a choice we make )is a grossly superficial understanding

    Decisions don't save, God saves
     
    #20 glad4mercy, Apr 12, 2018
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