O.S.A.S. (Once. Saved. Always. Saved)

hello and welcome to the board

Perhaps you should post the above in the theology forum..

 

Hi Zachary! I moved this thread from the welcome forum, for you cannot discuss topics there except introduce yourself. I am sure it will get more attention here than in the welcome forum.

 

We have only been attending a baptist church for a relatively short time. Someone hinted during a pre-sunday school discussion that we could lose our salvation. my daughter pulled me aside and said..."Dad, If they teach we can lose our salvation...I'm outa here!"

This topic was discussed on a week we were not there. the text used was Hebrews 6. Since then I have read a lot about this passage. there are many different views. I'd like to hear from otheres on this board.

Oh, yeah Zach...welcome to the boards

 

I don't need a KJV to tell me once saved, always saved! (But I'm fond of the KJV just the same; not trying to start anything. )

Because if there was no assurence of salvation, God would be a liar. He keeps his promises. And quite frankly, if I believed I could lose my salvation, I'd give up on Christianity entirely. It would be pointless.

 

To say a true believer in Jesus Christ can loose their salvation does two things...

1. It calls Jesus Christ a liar as He promised eternal life, and if one can loose it, it is not eternal.

2. It says the Holy Spirit is very weak. Scripture tells us that the Holy Spirit seals us in our salvation. So if one can loose it, that would mean by our human effort we can break what the Holy Spirit has sealed.

 

Right on, PastorSBC.
Preach it!

 

I disagree. I do not believe in OSAS, yet my faith is neither pointless nor do I think I should give it up. I do not believe God is a liar, nor the Holy Spirit to be weak.

And now I will be jumped on. Jump away! I am willing to explain and defend my view.

 

Natters, I guess if you don't believe in OSAS then you certainly SHOULDN'T be giving your faith up.

Seriously, where is the line drawn for a person to loose his/her salvation?

 

I believe that salvation is a "covenant". The whole New Testament is named such, as it deals with the new "testament", which is the same thing as a "covenant". Covenants require both parties involved to remain faithful to the covenant for the covenant to remain intact. God will always remain faithful to the covenant, an no-one can break our covenant with God, but we are still free to break the covenant ourselves. Like a marriage, the marriage is intact while both parties are faithful.

Once the covenant is established, you do not need to "work" to keep the covenant intact (e.g. my marriage doesn't end just because I don't wash the floor), nor does sin break the covenant (e.g. my marriage doesn't if I say something hurtful to my wife). To end the covenant, one must consciously break the initial conditions that established the covenant, and consciously choose to leave the covenant.

A quick example:

Luk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Note they "hear", "receive the word with joy" and "for a while believe". Elsewhere (even in the immediate verse prior!), scripture says belief is enough to make us saved. The covenant is established by belief, we are saved by grace through faith. However, the people described in Luke 8:13 eventually stop believing (the requirements of the covenant have been broken) and "fall away".

NT scripture is full of admonitions to remain faithful, to stand firm, to not go astray, to not fall away. In my understanding, such scriptures would be meaningless (and unnecessary) if OSAS was true.

 

Why not the same place as with Adam and Eve- one act of disobedience? These two people had walked perfectly with God for their whole lives up until that one day. It only took one wrong choice to bring death.

 

Two points to ponder:

1. At what point did we come to salvation and by what act?

2. At what point do we lose salvation and by what act?

Question #1 is fairly easy to answer, and the requirements are laid out in Rom 10:9-10.

2. Question #2 is IMHO impossible to answer.

Consider the word of our Lord in John 10:27-30 (NASB):

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one."

Sounds pretty definitive to me.......

 

Hi Zachary;
Over the last few centuries many Bibles have been translated in to different Languages. The thing that amazes me is the many that are not good translations. The ones that aren't good are missing the truth of the originals Like the New World trans.
The Bible says this;
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Now if ones name is taken out of the book of life for these sins they are no longer saved. Maybe you could explain this?
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike

 

There are 2 lengthy debates about Eternal Security on this website.

One of them is here: http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/28/3045.html?

The other one is here: http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/2991.html

Natters, I have a couple of questions. Does Jesus' blood wash my sins away? If an atheist, who by definition committed the sin of unbelief, becomes a Christian, does the blood of Christ wash away that sin of unbelief?

Jesus died for my sins 2,000 years before I committed even one of them. So, how can I commit a sin that his blood doesn't cover?

If there is a sin, or sins, that I can commit that causes me to lose my salvation, then you're telling me that the blood of Christ isn't enough to wash my sins away.

If the blood of Christ isn't enough to wash away my sins, why did Jesus die in the first place? Either the blood washes away all of my sins, or it washes away none of my sins.

 

In my opinion, the answer to #1 is "believing" (Mark 16:16, Acts 16:31, Rom 10:9, Eph 2:8-9, etc.), and the answer to #2 is "stopping believing" (Luke 8:13, etc.)

I agree. No one can snatch us out of his hand - just like a wolf cannot snatch a sheep from out of the care of a shepherd. But sheep able to go astray on their own.

 

Of course. But when is that sin of unbelief washed away? Why isn't it washed away while he is still an atheist? His sins are washed away when the covenant is established - through belief.

You can't, but when are your sins covered? Only when the covenant is intact. Not before it is established. Not after it is broken. Only while it is in place.

No, the blood of Christ IS enough to wash your sins away - but it is not automatic, unless you belief in universalism where everyone is saved regardless. The blood of Christ is enough to wash away all your sins, but it is not put into effect for you until/unless the covenant is established.

His blood is the "blood of the new testament ("covenant"), which is shed for many for the remission of sins."

 

...and a shephard will use his little hook thingie and pull him right back into the group.

 

I searched by Bible software for "hook thingie" and came up empty.

I did find several passages talking about sheep going astray though, sometimes all the way up into the mountains.

 

You've got to go to the underlying Greek text to find "hook thingie"......

But didn't Jesus also say something about the shepherd leaving the flock to find one lamb that was lost?

Just a thought, if I paid for something with my blood, I am not going to let it go....